The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Presiding Officer (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

I call the Assembly to order.

1. 1. Questions to the First Minister

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and I call on Paul Davies to ask the first question.

<p>Improving Health Services in Pembrokeshire</p>

Paul Davies AC: 1. Will the First Minister make a statement on what the Welsh Government is doing to improve health services in Pembrokeshire? OAQ(5)0139(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Welsh Government’s priorities are to provide the people of Pembrokeshire with health services that deliver the best possible outcomes for patients.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, the management of the Goodwick surgery in my constituency has posed great challenges. It has posed challenges in terms of recruitment, and, at times, access for patients has been a very real problem there. Given that your Government’s programme for government commits to continuing to improve access to surgeries, what support can your Government offer a community such as Goodwick in order to find a more stable solution for the local GP surgery?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, one of the things that we’re doing, of course, is ensuring that there is a campaign to attract more GPs into Wales—that will be starting next month—and to consider alternative and more sustainable ways for surgeries to work. Of course, it’s the duty of those surgeries to recruit in the first place because they are independent, but there will be support and assistance for them from the health boards so that they can recruit successfully. However, the aim of the Government is to ensure that more and more GPs wish to come to work in Wales.

Joyce Watson AC: First Minister, I was delighted to hear on Monday that Hywel Dda Local Health Board has been shortlisted for the highly respected ‘Health Service Journal’ award 2016 in the primary care innovation category for its innovation in community pharmacy triage and treat service, of which there are 17 pharmacies providing that service across Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion, with plans for another nine by the end of this year. It will, and should, play a very important role in reducing A&E attendances in these areas by providing treatment and advice to low-level need, including minor wounds et cetera. And it will, of course, reduce pressures on much needed A&E services. So, I ask you, First Minister: will you join me in congratulating the staff from Hywel Dda that have worked extremely hard at delivering this new, highly successful and innovative service, and wish them well in November?

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes, I will, of course. It’s very prestigious to have been nominated for this award, and it shows the kind of innovative thinking that we want to see in our health service, that not just benefits the system, but, importantly, benefits patients.

Simon Thomas AC: When a health board gets nominated for an award and it’s at a level 2 intervention from the Welsh Government, you have to ask yourself, ‘What’s going wrong?’ The truth is that, in Pembrokeshire, people’s access to primary health care is dangerously affected by the fact that it takes up to two weeks to get an appointment with a doctor, the fact that we don’t have minor injuries units anymore, and Tenby in particular in struggling to provide the kind of primary healthcare services I’m sure he, as the First Minister of Wales wants to see. What further steps is he going to take now to ensure that the health board does actually step in when local GP practices are not recruiting and are not able to provide the services that we expect?

Carwyn Jones AC: As we’ve done elsewhere in Wales, there’ll be occasions when practices are taken over by the health board, and they will improve the service quite often. Ask the people of Prestatyn—they will tell you that. On other occasions, other practices take over the running of the service, and with great success. I’m surprised that he thinks that the ‘Health Service Journal’ is something that should be ignored or that there’s something wrong with them, because it is the ‘Health Service Journal’ that has been responsible for ensuring that this nomination takes place, and it is a widely read journal. If he thinks that the journal is in some way useless, he can say so. The reality is that this is a very innovative scheme that they have come forward with and it is one to be welcomed. It is a shame he has not welcomed it.He asked a question particularly about Tenby—[Interruption.] He had his chance to welcome it and failed to do so. He mentioned Tenby—[Interruption.]He says that he’s not going to welcome something that Hywel Dda has done, and something that’s been recognised elsewhere. As far as Tenby is concerned, he will know that there are plans that are far advanced to make sure that there is a walk-in GP service provided in that town, which will be hugely convenient not just for those who live in the town, but for those who visit it.

<p>Response to the Refugee Crisis</p>

Suzy Davies AC: 2. Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government's response to the current refugee crisis? OAQ(5)0146(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: We continue to provide leadership and promote collaboration between stakeholders in Wales. We have established a taskforce and an operations board to drive delivery and to overcome any barriers. We’ve also established a children’s sub-group to work proactively to consider support required for emerging schemes.

Suzy Davies AC: Well, thank you for that, First Minister. On Saturday, I joined a number of colleagues from here, actually, at Swansea’s Stand as One rally. Although Swansea, along with Port Talbot, have managed to resettle a very modest number of refugees, most local authorities in Wales haven’t. Now, Welsh Government and Assembly Members have been clear that we want to welcome refugees here. You announced your Syrian vulnerable person resettlement programme two and a half years ago, yet, last month, we’d only welcomed 112 refugees to Wales. Now, the UK Government says it’s secured the 20,000 places it’s committed to, so what proactive steps have you taken to get more refugees here, more quickly, and why have 13 councils taken no refugees at all?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, you’ll have to ask the UK Government that; it’s their responsibility when it comes to the resettlement of refugees. We’ve made our position very, very clear in terms of what we will do to help them. It’s right to say that the UK Government has recently announced three children’s resettlement schemes. I want Wales to play its part to resettle vulnerable children and refugees in the UK. I will be speaking to the Welsh Local Government Association chair on how we can continue to work with the Home Office and local government once further information around the scheme evolves.

John Griffiths AC: First Minister, one of the issues to address to allow refugees in Wales to contribute fully to life here is to properly and adequately recognise the skills and qualifications that they possess. Will you take steps to ensure that that is the case for all refugees here in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, absolutely. We need to make sure that those people who have skills that are needed by our economy and by our health service, that those skills are utilised. And, certainly, one of the issues that we will want to explore with the WLGA—and the Home Office, actually—is how we can identify those people in terms of the skills that they possess.

Bethan Sayed AC: First Minister, you’ve already mentioned the children, but there are, in fact, 200 children in the Calais area who are currently not being taken in by any Government, and also in Lebanon and Syria as well, extra to the 200. We’ve seen the horrific pictures on our screens over the summer, and, quite frankly, the fact that we’re not doing enough for those children is embarrassing, and they should not be in such a position of trauma or be left on their own to fend for their lives. I don’t buy into this fear-mongering that they choose to go to Calais, and that more will follow because of us trying to help those unaccompanied children.Today, the world leaders are gathered in New York to discuss the refugee crisis. So, will you join with me in asking the UK Government to bring these 200 children to safety immediately? And I would ask also that you commit Wales to helping in this unprecedented crisis by taking our fair share of unaccompanied children from the camps in the region, as well as in Calais? And I’d appreciate you not telling us that it’s the UK Government’s responsibility; what are you going to do, First Minister?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, in November 2015, we did establish the Syrian refugee taskforce. We were well ahead of the game in terms of other Governments. We were absolutely clear that Wales would take a fair share of refugees. The same is true of children, of course. The fact that the UK Government now has three children’s resettlement schemes is a welcome step in the right direction, and we want to make sure that Wales plays its full part in welcoming children, who have quite often lost their parents, children who have seen wars, children who have seen things in front of them that we would not want anybody—children or adults—to see, and we stand ready to help those children.

Gareth Bennett AC: While I understand the wish of Members here to facilitate the arrival of more refugees, we must also acknowledge that there is widespread concern in the UK at the number of economic migrants who are attempting to arrive in the UK under the guise of being refugees. [Interruption.] This will be about refugees. What I would like to ask the First Minister is what measures the Welsh Government can pursue to ensure that those who do arrive in Wales are genuine refugees.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, first of all, if he thinks that the people leaving Syria are economic migrants, when they have seen people butchered in front of them, when they have seen people murdered, where they have seen people bombed, where they have seen children killed, and if he really thinks, in good conscience—well he can look down—if he thinks, in good conscience, that these people are in some way economic migrants, he needs to take a good, long, hard look at himself.

<p>Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders</p>

I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister, and, first of all, the leader of the opposition, Leanne Wood.

Leanne Wood AC: Diolch, Lywydd. First Minister, last week the Scottish Government’s Brexit Minister met with the UK Cabinet Secretary for leaving the EU in order to discuss what role the Edinburgh administration could play in the UK’s negotiating stance. Two weeks ago in Chicago you said that Wales cannot afford to be—and these are your words—‘passive observers in this most momentous of decisions’.Will you therefore now reconsider your decision not to appoint a dedicated Brexit Minister, or are you prepared to consign Wales to irrelevance?

Carwyn Jones AC: It is the responsibility of the First Minister to take forward the issue of Brexit, not to offload it to another Minister. I will not be doing that; it’s my responsibility.

Leanne Wood AC: Well, I think it’s a shame, First Minister, that, unlike Scotland, Wales will not have a Minister dedicated solely to looking at Brexit and nothing else. First Minister, I understand that you established an expert advisory group on Brexit back in August in order to secure the best possible outcome for Wales from the Brexit negotiations. Can you tell us: has that group met yet? My understanding is that that group hasn’t yet met, and so please explain why not. Then we have the Brexit liaison committee—and I’m the Plaid Cymru representative on that committee—and I’m wondering why no meeting of that committee has yet been held. I’ve yet even to receive an invitation to attend such a meeting. So, First Minister, isn’t the real reason that you’ve not appointed a Brexit Minister and that you’ve not yet held these meetings the fact that you’ve got no plan, you’ve got no vision, and no clue as to what Wales should look like outside the European Union?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, she sent me a letter last week and I’ve seen the reply to that letter—I don’t know why she hasn’t received it—because, in that letter, it suggested a date when we should meet to discuss these issues. It may be that she’s not received it yet, but it’s certainly something that I’ve given my permission to be sent to her. I do not believe that a First Minister should abdicate responsibility. ‘For Wales, see Scotland’ is not the way forward as far is Wales is concerned. It is for the First Minister to take responsibility in terms of the way forward as far as the EU is concerned. The advisory group will meet at the end of this month. The sub-committee of the Cabinet has already met. The day after the referendum we outlined our six priorities. I called the British-Irish Council to Cardiff, together with leaders from around the UK, the Crown dependencies and, indeed, the Republic of Ireland, to start to fashion a response, and there’s been constant contact on a ministerial level. I’ve spoken to the Brexit Minister, but we’re a long way from agreeing on anything because his view is that tariffs don’t matter. Those contacts have been kept up throughout the summer. I’ve also discussed the issue with the Prime Minister personally.

Leanne Wood AC: First Minister, you say, ‘For Wales, see Scotland’, but it looks more like you saying, ‘For Wales, see England’. Everything that they do, you are happy to go along with, and your position on Brexit is full of contradictions. Let’s have a look at what you’ve said, for example, about a Welsh veto. During your recent visit to the United States, you stated,‘Whatever deal is finally negotiated, its acceptance should be subject to the support of the four parliaments that now legislate for the UK.’Yet, by Sunday, you’d abandoned that view. Now you don’t believe that there should be a veto from this Assembly if the Brexit deal is not a good one for Wales. Will you today justify your decision to submit to Theresa May and her Tory Government by giving them the final say as to how Brexit will impact on this nation?

Carwyn Jones AC: She’s got the issue confused. What was suggested was that I wanted the Welsh Government to have a veto. No—I’ve said that all four Parliaments in the UK should be able to ratify any deal. I stand by that. I was the first to say it.

Leanne Wood AC: So the Assembly should have a veto.

Carwyn Jones AC: Of course the Assembly should have an opportunity to ratify any deal that’s on the table, and rightly so, because it wouldn’t be right for the UK Government to agree issues such as farming and fisheries policy without input from the devolved Parliaments, because they have no role in farming and fisheries as far as Wales and Scotland are concerned. I think there’s practical sense in doing that, because if you want to get the widest possible buy-in for any post-Brexit deal, it makes perfect sense, if you’re the UK Government, I would argue, for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to give express ratification to any deal. If a deal goes ahead without the support of this Assembly or Scotland or Northern Ireland, that deal will inevitably be weakened and will not stand the test of time.

The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, in recent press reports, and namely this morning, you talk about your new position on the free movement of people, should there be an agreement with the European Union to maintain access to the single market. You seem to be referring to some sort of period where no movement should be allowed over a given period, such as when the new eastern European countries came in, in 2004. In June of this year, you were very clear that goods, services and people were interlinked and could not be divorced. Is it the position of the Welsh Government now that the free movement of people is not a red line for the Welsh Government, and merely goods and services are the points that you are promoting?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well that’s exactly, of course, what many in the UK Government believe. For me, access to the single market in terms of goods and services is a red line. That’s something that cannot be negotiated away. I have made the suggestion of a seven-year moratorium; I think that offers a possibility as far as the UK is concerned—I’m trying to be helpful as far as the UK Government is concerned here—in order to maintain access to the single market. But, no, for me, it’s access for goods and services that is the red line.

Andrew RT Davies AC: So, for you—and I’m questioning you as First Minister—you are saying that is the position of the Welsh Government, which, obviously, within that Government, has a Liberal Democrat Member, and collective responsibility. So, therefore, all Members around the Cabinet table agree that the position of the Welsh Government does not now relate to the free movement of people, which, as I understood it, was a red line for you back in June. Is that the case?

Carwyn Jones AC: No. Access to the single market for goods and services is the red line; the issue of free movement of people is something that will need to be examined and discussed as part of the negotiations.

Andrew RT Davies AC: The position has completely changed, First Minister, and you’ve signed your Government up to dropping the prerequisite that the free movement of people is a requisite that you wanted back in your declaration in June. You also have the agreement of Plaid Cymru supporting you in your endeavours, and so I’m assuming that these discussions have been undertaken with Plaid Cymru and you are not making these decisions solo. What is concerning here, as the answers are slowly coming out from you, is that, very often, you are appearing on camera and making up policy on the hoof. How are you arriving at the collective responsibility of the Welsh Government so that your position as the lead on the Welsh Government can be taken seriously when you are discussing these matters in Westminster? You have moved on a fundamental principle here, which you said was a red line for you in June. That has now been discarded in September, and one of your Members in the Cabinet has signed up to that who is a Lib Dem—and Plaid Cymru, by supporting your Government.

Carwyn Jones AC: Does anyone here know what Conservative policy is, either in the UK or Wales, in terms of Brexit? Do you know what they say about Brexit? ‘Brexit means Brexit.’ Brilliant. Brilliant. What a fantastic leap of logic. I have no idea what his position is on Europe—absolutely no idea whatsoever. What I can say to him is that all of us on this side of the Chamber know full well that access to the single market for goods and services is vital for Welsh industry. Will he support that? Will he support that? Will he support the proposition that we need to be able to sell in one of the biggest markets in the world—bigger than America and Russia concerned—without any trade barriers? That is the question that was being asked of me by US investors when I was in the US. If he had been there, he wouldn’t even have given them an answer.

The leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Well, I’m delighted to welcome the First Minister to signing up to UKIP policy on immigration. We’re making progress. But I’m sure the First Minister is looking forward with as much relish as I am to the result of the Labour Party leadership election being announced on Saturday. Does he agree with me that the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party would be very good for Wales, because, in the memorable words of Lord Kinnock, it’s very doubtful we’ll see another Labour Government again in his lifetime?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, two things I have to say to the leader of UKIP: firstly, it seems that his party’s policy is to treat people who are refugees from war as economic migrants. We’ve heard that from a Member of his own back benches. Secondly, I can guarantee him—[Interruption.] I can guarantee him that the party he was once a member of in the 1980s is the party that is most disliked by the electorate in Wales. They remember what he did, and his party, after that 1981 budget that he was so proud of. They remember what he did, supporting the miner’s strike against our own people—shut down our mining industry, shut down our steel industry. If that’s UKIP policy, by all means go out and sell it to the people of Wales.

Neil Hamilton AC: Can I bring the First Minister back to today, rather than 30 years ago, which is rather more relevant? By the way, Gareth Bennett did not take the view that people coming from Syria are all economic migrants, but the whole point about the law on refugees is that you’re entitled to refugee status in the first country to which you go for protection from the country from which you’re coming, and that, in most cases, is Turkey. Once they get to Turkey, from there on, they are economic migrants. Would the First Minister first agree with me that that is the law?

Carwyn Jones AC: No, I don’t agree with that at all. People will look to go to the first place they can get to as a place of safety. From my perspective, it’s important—. He is the descendant of an immigrant. All his Members are descendants of immigrants. It’s all a question of when their families came to this island. Every single one of us in this room is the descendant of an immigrant. It all depends on when our families actually came here and, from my perspective, it’s absolutely right that where people are fleeing war and oppression they get the opportunity in a civilised country—in a civilised country—to be able to live their lives in peace, and that is something I’ll never compromise on.

Neil Hamilton AC: Everybody agrees with that general principle and it has nothing whatever to do with the EU because we’re signed up to international conventions under the UN and the Geneva convention. Of course it’s right that refugees should be given asylum and protection from the countries where they can’t live in safety. But economic migration is a fact of life in Europe. Millions of people are queuing up on the borders of the European Union, which are porous, and there has to be a European solution to this. It can’t just be left to chance where millions of people manage to get through the system, end up at Calais, and are queuing up to come across the channel. There has to be a managed process, but there has to be a limitation because, if immigration is uncontrolled into this country, all kinds of social complications are created and the people who lose out most of all are those at the bottom of the income scale, the most disadvantaged, the most under privileged in society, whom the Labour Party, I thought, was actually brought into being to protect.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I’m not going to take lectures from somebody who was a Thatcherite trumpet blower back in the 1980s. But I’ll agree with him on one point: there should be a European solution. But the problem is we are now not going to be part of the European solution because we won’t be in Europe. That’s the issue. We won’t have a voice in it. But he’s right: it’s hugely important this is treated as a European challenge and that all European countries rise to that challenge. Let’s not forget that it’s within living memory that millions of people were actually refugees within Europe and were moving from one country to another in massive population exchanges at the end of the war and, indeed, in Yugoslavia in the 1990s. So, sometimes we forget our own history when we talk about refugees. I welcome what he said about the need to make sure that people who are genuine refugees are given help and asylum. I understand the point he makes about uncontrolled immigration. I don’t argue for uncontrolled immigration; of course there have to be limits on what any country can accept. We must be hugely careful not to suggest that those people who are fleeing war and are desperate and have seen people drown in the Aegean sea in the eastern Mediterranean somehow are simply looking for a better paid job. I just don’t buy that, I’m sorry.

<p>Procurement of Public Services</p>

Russell George AC: 3. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's guidance to local authorities on the procurement of public services? OAQ(5)0140(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. Local authorities are expected to comply with the principles of the Wales procurement policy statement to help maximise the economic benefit of procurement for Wales.

Russell George AC: First Minister, the largest privately owned waste management company in Wales, the Potter Group, which is based in my constituency, has been excluded from bidding for a waste management contract in Bridgend County Borough Council because it doesn’t meet the requirements of having an annual turnover of more than £50 million. Would you agree with me that it’s disproportionate to require such a large annual turnover, which results in the exclusion of even the largest waste management company in Wales from bidding for these types of contracts, and would you commit to reviewing Welsh Government guidance to ensure local authorities are—in this regard to procurement contracts?

Carwyn Jones AC: He raises an important point on behalf of a business in his community. If he would write to me with further detail then I’ll give it, of course, the attention to detail that the question deserves.

Lee Waters AC: First Minister, there’s been considerable progress in harnessing the power of the public pound, but there’s still more to do. Professor Kevin Morgan, who’s one of Europe’s leading experts on sustainable food, has pointed to a skills gap as a major challenge ahead of us. He’s made suggestions about recruiting a dozen skilled professionals to be able to give the Welsh public sector the skilled professionals it needs to further harness the power of that pound. Would you be willing to look into Professor Morgan’s proposals?

Carwyn Jones AC: Of course. I know those local authorities, some have been better than others over the years: Carmarthenshire, for example, historically, has been very strong when it comes to procurement, at one point employing seven professionals just in the one county. Other local authorities have not been as proactive in terms of employing procurement specialists. We would expect the public sector in Wales, of course, to procure locally as much as possible and that’s been successful. Welsh contractors, for example, are currently winning 77 per cent of all major construction awards and that’s up from 30 per cent prior to the introduction of the supplier qualification information database approach. Results from the first 259 projects that have taken place that are worth £1.2 billion show that 82 per cent has been reinvested in Wales in the last few years. So, we are seeing a much, much better situation when it comes to procurement, although, of course, we’re willing to look at anything that actually improves the situation further.

Adam Price AC: I think that import substitution is probably going to become even more imperative, economically, to us as a result possibly of the clumsy and confusing approach to single market access that we’re currently seeing from this Government, but can the First Minister tell us if the kind of advice and direction given to local authorities currently by the Welsh Government includes positive support of things like a dynamic purchasing system, which allows companies, new companies, to supply as part of a contract, even after another organisation has been appointed, and away from the overuse of framework contracts and the bundling of contracts, which are inimical, really, to providing opportunities particularly to small and medium-sized enterprises?

Carwyn Jones AC: It’s absolutely right that local authorities should look at un-bundling contracts; that was one of the problems years ago where local companies could not bid. We saw it in the health service where there was a combination of trying to get in big suppliers and, at that time, Welsh suppliers weren’t in a position to supply the health service; they were unable to. That was resolved. Far from being clumsy in terms of the situation on the EU, I think we’re absolutely clear—I’m not entirely sure where his party are on this, but I’ve been as clear as I can be, and I’m sure these views will be developed between the parties over the next few weeks and months. The procurement policy statement does provide clear direction to the Welsh public sector. If that’s applied effectively then, of course, we can see a positive impact for our economy and our communities. We’re seeing that since the SQuID process began. We are, of course, committed to helping smaller and third sector firms as well to access the public procurement access in Wales, and a joint bidding guide is helping smaller and micro businesses to form consortia to help to bid for those contracts where otherwise they wouldn’t be in a position to bid successfully for them because of their size and because of the nature of the supply needed as part of that contract.

Michelle Brown AC: Following Brexit, we will be able to set our own public procurement rules to suit our own economic and procurement needs, rather than the needs of big business in other countries. What measures are you going to put into place to give preference to Welsh businesses when awarding public procurement contracts, and what changes are you going to make to public procurement rules to make it easier for small businesses to compete for such contracts?

Carwyn Jones AC: I think I’ve answered part of that question, but she needs to be careful about what she wishes for, because it would also mean that companies from Wales and the rest of the UK would be blocked from bidding for contracts in the much larger market of the European Union, which is not something that we would want to see. That said, it’s hugely important that we can develop a procurement policy further in the future in order to build on the already successful results that we have seen, to make sure that more and more money is kept locally.

Jenny Rathbone AC: I’ve just come from the celebration of school meals hosted by Lesley Griffiths—delighted to hear from the head of the school meals service for Bridgend that they’re pitching for the charter mark for their school meals service, which is what we enjoy upstairs in our canteen—and I wondered what help the national food procurement service is going to be able to provide schools so that all schools can pitch for the charter mark, in particular in relation to fruit and vegetables. Only 3 per cent of fruit and vegetables is locally sourced, with a massive trade deficit resulting. What ambition, therefore, does the Welsh Government have to ensure that all our schools have the charter mark, just like Oldham does?

Carwyn Jones AC: I thank the Member for the question. Bridgend is a popular reference point this afternoon I can see, but I’m glad to hear what she heard earlier on today. The point she makes is an important one. Fruit and vegetables are difficult; we don’t produce that many in Wales. We probably couldn’t supply all our schools in Wales because of the nature of our topography and our climate; we tend towards dairy and meat production. That said, in terms of other things that can be supplied, the National Procurement Service is working closely to improve the food safety and nutrition of all food products, and schools are already delivering nutritionally balanced meals under the Healthy Eating in Schools initiative. NPS will improve the sourcing and ranges available through continued strategic supplier relationship management.

<p>Library Services</p>

Hefin David AC: 4. Will the First Minister make a statement on Welsh Government support for library services in Wales? OAQ(5)0141(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. We’re committed to supporting public libraries as we recognise the vital contribution they make to the well-being of people in Wales. Since 2007, we’ve invested some £14 million to modernise over 100 community libraries, including £1 million to modernise and co-locate six libraries in the course of this financial year.

Hefin David AC: Welsh Government support for libraries is welcomed, particularly in Caerphilly. We’ve seen the development of libraries in Caerphilly and Bargoed, and Ystrad Mynach is currently undergoing a lot of work. I was interested, also, in the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure’s evidence to the communication committee last week, in which he said libraries are more than just about books, they’re about a whole load of technological provisions for residents.I wanted to ask, particularly, for an update on the Welsh Government’s plans for an all-Wales library card, which were first published a year ago. I was contacted by a constituent who has a holiday home in Burry Port—a fine place in Lee Waters’s constituency—and wanted to use the library there. He was not permitted to join the library and wasn’t permitted to use his Caerphilly county borough council card there either. I’ve written to Carmarthenshire County Council to try and clarify what’s going on, but particularly, I’d like to know, with the library card scheme, whether that would help. I understand it would also lead to quite a substantial saving for local authorities.

Carwyn Jones AC: These are issues that are still being considered by the Minister. Of course, it happens digitally already, in terms of digital lending, where many, many local authorities participate in the one central resource, but the work is still being looked at to see whether an all-Wales library card to borrow physically would be workable. I suppose from the local authority’s point of view, they would be concerned, if they were a temporary resident, about whether that person could be traced if the book wasn’t going to come back. These aren’t insurmountable issues, but certainly these are issues that I know are still being examined in terms of seeing whether they’re still practical.

Darren Millar AC: First Minister, will you join me in congratulating the Friends of Kinmel Bay Community Library, who established a charity in order to take over the operation of the library in Kinmel Bay after it was threatened with closure by Conwy County Borough Council? Do you accept that there is a challenge for rural local authorities in particular being able to provide sufficient access to library services simply because of the additional cost that rural local authorities face in delivering public services? What action are you taking as a Government to look at the funding formula to make sure that it’s sufficient to resource local authorities like Conwy and Denbighshire, to ensure that they can continue to provide library services in other communities that might be affected in the same way that Kinmel Bay has been, in the future?

Carwyn Jones AC: Of course, the local government funding formula has been agreed with the Welsh Local Government Association; there are no plans, currently, to instigate a widespread review of that formula, because inevitably, there will be winners and losers.

Caroline Jones AC: First Minister, while we welcome your reaffirmation of the Welsh Government’s commitment to library services, your support is of little comfort to those communities who have had their libraries closed as a result of local government cuts. We have seen many libraries close their doors for good, while others owe their existence to a small team of dedicated volunteers. So, what is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that every community in Wales has access to a good local library?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I think I answered that question in terms of what we’ve done to help 100 community libraries. She will be aware of at least two new libraries that have opened in the area where we both live—in Bridgend and in Pyle. They’re relatively new facilities that have opened in the past few years, which the local communities are very proud of. They are examples of libraries that have been refurbished or rebuilt across the whole of Wales.

David Rees AC: Following on from that, First Minister, clearly, the councils are facing difficulties because of Westminster austerity cuts being passed down to them; they are looking at the services to provide and community libraries are one of the ways in which it’s happening. You, yourself, have visited Briton Ferry library and have seen the work being done by the community there—Taibach and Cymmer are similar in my constituency. But, they always face difficult times when they start off trying to become a community library. What can the Welsh Government do to support those community groups that are trying to take over the libraries to provide a service, particularly, as has been highlighted, the IT elements, for both adults and children, which are vital to those communities?

Carwyn Jones AC: Absolutely, and we would seek to point them towards others who have run libraries successfully, and help in terms of working with third sector organisations and the advice that they can give. We’ve seen many, many groups—it’s been mentioned twice now in the Chamber—that have taken over libraries, have taken our advice and are making those libraries a success.

<p>Bus Services from Aberystwyth to Cardiff</p>

Simon Thomas AC: 5. Will the First Minister make a statement on bus services from Aberystwyth to Cardiff? OAQ(5)0149(FM)[W]

Carwyn Jones AC: Since the recent closure of Lewis Coaches, we have been working closely with local authorities to ensure that key bus services to west Wales are reinstated as quickly as possible.

Simon Thomas AC: I’m grateful to hear that it’s your intention to see this bus service return. May I say that, even in the days of Margaret Thatcher, there was a direct bus service from Aberystwyth to Cardiff? That ran uninterrupted until this summer, and it’s the first time we’ve lost that direct coach service, which was so attractive to pensioners and students—they were the main customers, certainly. I’ve already heard from people who’ve had to spend a night in Carmarthen because they’ve got on the train too late to actually get the connecting bus to Aberystwyth. So, when you say that you want to see this service reinstated, will you tell us when, and how the Government is going to ensure that this does happen?

Carwyn Jones AC: We expect the service to be reinstated within weeks. I remember the TrawsCambria service in the 1980s and went on it a number of times, but there is a long-term question here. This Assembly will receive powers over buses in 2018. You, just as I have, have seen a number of bus companies going to the wall, and that is not sustainable. After the restructuring of bus companies in 2018, we hope that that will not happen. The same thing happened with Arriva, of course, in Ceredigion, as the services disappeared. Of course, other bus companies did take over those services, but we can’t continue with a system that sees services stopping because the bus company no longer runs. We have to have a better system, and there’ll be an opportunity to have one in two years’ time.

Russell George AC: The five-point action plan on local bus services that your colleague the Cabinet Secretary for the economy published last week is very much to be welcomed. Bus service support grants have been cut already. Can you guarantee that the current level of funding for local bus services, as outlined last week, and any additional—. I’m sorry. Can you guarantee the current level of funding for local bus services and outline exactly what additional funding will be available to achieve the Welsh Government’s five-point plan?

Carwyn Jones AC: We are considering, as part of the budget process, what’s appropriate in terms of the bus services support grant. What is clear, however, in the answer I gave earlier—. I have been in this Assembly for 17 years. Many, many times, bus companies have collapsed and their services have had to be replaced. The question must be asked as to whether that’s a sustainable system, to have bus companies that don’t seem to be able to make a go of it—not all; some do well, of course—and the subsequent gap that leaves, however temporary, for the users of those services. We know there are many, many services across Wales that are run by private companies, but can’t operate without a public subsidy. To me, that wasn’t the intention of his party when buses were privatised. They were meant to be in competition with each other. There are very few parts of Wales with any kind of competition. It tends to be one company operating the service under a public subsidy. We have to examine how effective that is in the future. Some of them have been effective, and some of them have clearly not been effective. But, after 2018, there’ll be the opportunity to reassess how bus services are provided across the entire country.

David J Rowlands AC: Following on from this discussion of bus services in a specific area, I understand that there’s been a preliminary assessment of the reintroduction of a railway line from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth. Can the First Minister inform us as to any future plans to institute a full feasibility study and, if so, when?

Carwyn Jones AC: Something close to my heart, in principle, and others’; I know that. The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line disappeared as a passenger line in 1964. It was in place, in the main, until 1975. I remember trains coming through Bridgend station having come down from Aberaeron and Newcastle Emlyn on the spur, carrying milk in those days. In an act of utter stupidity, the line was taken up very, very quickly. And, of course, that presents a problem. Some of it’s been reinstated by the Gwili railway.We think that a substantial part of the permanent way is still intact, that there are, actually, very few gaps there. There are still many bridges in place; one or two are missing. So, that assessment has been made, but it’s also true to say that there will need to be an assessment of the cost benefit of reinstating the track. It’s a substantial cost, running into the billions, and that work will need to be done carefully in terms of seeing whether that line can be reinstated. That work is ongoing. We’ve seen it done elsewhere in the UK. We know that Scotland has done it with the Waverley line, but, as far as this line is concerned, the work will continue so that we have a good understanding of the cost, the practicability and the timescale.

<p>Bovine TB in Wales</p>

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 6. Will the First Minister make a statement on Bovine TB levels in Wales? OAQ(5)0151(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. We have seen some real progress over the last few years. We are seeing a downward trend in new TB incidents. The latest statistics show that, in the last 12 months, there were 740 new herd incidents reported in Wales, compared with 884 in the previous 12 months. That’s a decrease of 16 per cent.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you, First Minister. However, the number of cattle slaughtered as a result of contracting bovine TB has actually seen a sharp increase of 43 per cent over the past 12 months, bringing much misery and financial hardship to our farmers. I understand that the Welsh Government abandoned its own vaccine programme in December, given the levels of human TB and the shortage of vaccine now available. The FUW has stressed the difference in approach and understanding between your Government and policies implemented in England, and without a proactive approach to manage the source of infection in cattle and wildlife, international trade negotiations for Wales could be put at significant risk. Given what can only be described now as a crisis in farming, as regards bovine TB, what immediate action are you taking to resolve this? Will you, as First Minister, make a statement in this Chamber to the Assembly Members, and also to our very worried farmers out there in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: It would be for the Minister to make that statement, and she will be keeping the Assembly informed of that. But, as I said, the number of breakdowns has gone down. Testing is up. We know that there are no difficulties in terms of international trade, as far as bovine TB is concerned. In fact, the eradication programme, which is jointly owned by England, Wales and Northern Ireland, has received £31 million of European money. There we are; let’s see if that continues in the future. So, there’s no difficulty with the approach that we have taken. No country, nor indeed the European Union, has ever said that they have difficulty with the approach taken to reducing TB incidence in Wales.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: May I ask, as the Government is reviewing its strategy at present, what lessons you have learned from other countries, particularly the experiences in England where they’ve adopted a different approach, and perhaps in the Republic of Ireland too?

Carwyn Jones AC: One of the things that I know about England, as I remember, during the Krebs tests, was that things worsened because of the fact that they were culling the badgers from the centre outwards. Of course, with perturbation, the disease was spreading because of that. I know that many people think that there’s an easy solution to TB and that if you cull, eradicate or get rid of the badgers, then you’d eradicate TB. It's more complicated than that. I recall sitting on the committe and hearing the evidence, which demonstrated that it’s much more complicated and that there is not one answer. However, having said that, we’ve seen a reduction, which is to be welcomed, in the number of stock that are being tested positive with TB. That’s something that we wish to see continuing.

<p>Tax Devolution</p>

Nick Ramsay AC: 7. Will the First Minister provide an update on tax devolution? OAQ(5)0150(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. We’re on target to deliver the devolved Welsh taxes, and collection and management arrangements. From April 2018, we will be able to do so, but that will depend, of course, on the agreement of a fiscal framework for Wales, which is hugely important.

Nick Ramsay AC: Thank you, First Minister. As you know, I’ve supported the fiscal framework. I was pleased to attend the finance Secretary’s meeting with the new chief executive of the Welsh Revenue Authority last Thursday to discuss the process of appointing the chair to the new organisation. This is clearly going to be one of the most important new roles in Wales in recent times. Tax devolution will only succeed, First Minister, if the public can have confidence in it. Clearly, at the moment very few people are even aware that it’s happening. How are you ensuring that we get the right quality and the right calibre of candidates to apply for this new role at the WRA? How is your Welsh Government publicising the whole devolution of taxation so that, when it does start to happen in 2018, the public are fully aware of what’s going on with their tax bills?

Carwyn Jones AC: There will be a communications plan, as ever. We did this, of course, with the human transplantation Act—and we saw the effects of that—where the vast majority of people were aware of the legislation and aware of its contents. The Welsh Revenue Authority will be hugely important, of course, in terms of being able to collect a tax that is fair, robust and, above all, can be collected and cannot be avoided very easily. We understand the need to do that. So, I’ve got no difficulty in believing that we will have a sufficient calibre of candidates from which to choose the chair of the authority.

Mike Hedges AC: First Minister, do you agree with me that it’s of prime importance, in devolving any taxes, for Wales to suffer no detriment from the devolution of those taxes? Will you press for independent arbitration to resolve disputes with the Treasury? I don’t want to sound pessimistic, but I have a feeling that we may end up with the odd dispute with the Treasury. And if the Treasury acts as judge and jury in that case, we are likely to come off second best. So, if there are going to be any disputes, we need some form of fair arbitration.

Carwyn Jones AC: I agree entirely. One thing that I can say to him is that the Secretary of State for Wales knows and understands that any support for the Wales Bill will depend on a fiscal framework being in place. There’s no good having that and then having the fiscal framework. Scotland was given that courtesy. There’s no reason why Wales shouldn’t have the same level of courtesy. And he’s right, of course: at the moment, the dispute resolutions process within the JMC is such that, if there is a dispute with the Treasury, then the dispute rolls on until it is eventually decided by the Treasury. So, there is no third party involved. I made arguments at the time that there should be an independent panel of arbitrators. That’s not something that the UK Government at the time were prepared to accept. There are, of course, models elsewhere. In Australia, there is a grants commission that acts independently in order to arbitrate between states and between states and the federal Government. There is no reason why this can’t happen here. We just need to make sure that the Treasury understands that it can’t be judge and jury on everything.

Nathan Gill AC: First Minister, I have a solution for you with regard to the communication of the tax-raising powers that you are going to be getting. Now, the vast majority of people, if we are honest, have no idea that this is coming down the track towards them. There is a way for you to let people know what is actually happening and also for you to be able to have the communication—two-way—with the public, and that’s to give them a referendum. Don’t go blaming costs and all the rest of it, which I know you normally do. Do you trust the people of Wales, and will you have that discussion with them, and will you allow them to have their voice heard? [Interruption.] It is genius, thank you.

Carwyn Jones AC: I am grateful to the Member for his advice. He won’t be surprised that I don’t accept his advice that a referendum that would cost £4 million would be of particular help, given the fact that political parties in their manifestos explained their position to the people of Wales at the election in May. The people of Wales took a decision in terms of what they wanted to do. This is an issue that’s properly decided at an election, and the people of Wales gave their views.

<p>Reducing Childhood Obesity</p>

Eluned Morgan AC: 8. Will the First Minister make a statement on the measures being taken to reduce childhood obesity in Mid and West Wales? OAQ(5)0152(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. We have introduced legislation, policies and a range of interventions to improve diets and increase physical activity. But, of course, this can’t be done by Government alone. It is something that we are tackling together with a wide range of organisations.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. I’ve met with the director of public health for the Hywel Dda health board area recently and she has confirmed that a recent survey has shown that 28 per cent of children up to the age of four are overweight. That’s 28 per cent—that’s an astonishing figure. Another report recently showed that three quarters of children in Britain spend less time in the open air than people in our prisons. Would you agree with me that it would be worth while putting in place a mechanism to monitor children’s weight as they go through school and also to monitor their physical activity, as was suggested by Tanni Grey-Thompson last week?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, this, of course, is something that is part of the Donaldson review—namely to say that the purpose of education is to ensure that children are healthy, confident—and will be part of the work that is being done as regards the new curriculum. Health and also, of course, physical activity will be central to the new curriculum structure. At present, about 96 per cent of schools are participating in Dragon Sport, ensuring that children between seven and 11 are participating in sport and there are health-promotion workers in every school, that is every school that is part of the healthy schools network, and they support new ways of ensuring that more and more children participate in physical activity. So, work has been done, but it is vital, as I said, that both health and physical education are central to and put at the heart of the new curriculum.

Question 9—Angela Burns.

Angela Burns AC: Thank you.

Question 9.Cwestiwn 9.

Angela Burns AC: [Inaudible.]

Question 9 [OAQ(5)0143(FM)] not asked.

Question 10—Bethan Jenkins.

<p>Shared Cycle Routes</p>

Bethan Sayed AC: 10. Will the First Minister make a statement on the use of shared cycle routes in Wales? OAQ(5)0142(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: The active travel design guidance sets out the parameters and standards for their use.

Bethan Sayed AC: Thank you for that response. The First Minister might be interested to know that when I was out running in Neath recently I was almost pushed into a canal by a cyclist who was travelling too fast on the same path that I was using. My question, therefore, is: given that there is this separation between cyclists and pedestrians, I’ve had people in the Mumbles area, who go there often, where there are cyclists who don’t take account of those people who are walking—you know, on a Sunday, there are many people there—. How, then, can they be sensitive to what’s happening around them, rather than just trying to cycle as fast as they would on a mountain, for example? So, what can you do in terms of education to ensure that everyone can share the same environment comfortably?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, cyclists are duty-bound to ensure that they don’t speed so that they would hit someone, because, of course, that would be their fault. What does happen in the Mumbles—and I know the path very well, as I’ve cycled on it myself a number of times—is that walkers walk along the cycle path and on the route of the cyclists. Now, they don’t realise that, so one of the things that will have to be done ultimately, I think, will be to ensure that, where there is a path for cyclists and a path for walkers, perhaps they are different colours, so that people know where they should walk and where they should cycle. But that doesn’t take away the responsibility from the cyclist to ensure that they are riding their bike in a responsible manner that doesn’t endanger other people.

Thank you, First Minister.

2. 2. Business Statement and Announcement

The next item on the agenda is the business statement and announcement and I call on Jane Hutt.

Jane Hutt AC: Llywydd, I've made one addition to today's agenda. The First Minister will make a statement on the programme for government, ‘Taking Wales Forward 2016-2021’, shortly. I've also amended the titles of today's oral statements by the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport and the Minister for Social Services and Public Health. No questions were tabled for answer by the Assembly Commission tomorrow, so timings have been adjusted accordingly, and business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement found among the agenda papers available to Members electronically.

Simon Thomas AC: If I could just raise two issues with you and ask, first of all, if we can have a statement from the Minister for infrastructure, economy and transport regarding the closure eastbound of the A48 outside Carmarthen. I understand that this closure has started and is going to happen for six weeks, between Carmarthen and Nantycaws. I'm already getting some feedback of delays, severe delays, in the Carmarthen area. And, of course, this is not a local issue only; this is a main link between Wales and Ireland and between Wales and the rest of the European Union, heavily used by goods vehicles, as anyone who's been there knows, and diverting all the traffic through what is the old road, as it were, through Llangynnwr, is already causing concerns and, more importantly in that context, causing long delays.I would particularly like a statement on how the Welsh Government intends to do the best they can to smooth these delays, and also on what relationship we have with contractors when—I understand the work is essential—such long periods of time seem to be allowed for work to be done, and whether we put enough pressure and requirements on some companies to attain this work as quickly as possible, rather than drag it out, and it will be an economic knock to the west if this isn't resolved quickly. So, I hope we can have at least have a written statement soon regarding that.The second issue I'd like to ask about is: what is the procedure—I think maybe the First Minister can help in this regard, with a statement or an explanation—regarding statements by Cabinet Ministers on Government policy not in this Chamber? I note that the Secretary for education went to her party conference, which isn't the same as the Government's party conference, of course, and made several education announcements—doubling of the pupil deprivation grant, a ban on grammar schools in Wales—and yet, when I look in the programme for government that was published today, there's no mention of those commitments whatsoever. There is some vague wording on some of them, but there's no mention of these commitments, so I'm left with the question, and I'm sure many people are: is the Cabinet Minister going to a party conference making a statement about policy a commitment by the Cabinet and Welsh Government, or merely an expression of Liberal Democrat hopes, which we've had a lot of over the last couple of days, indeed? It would be good to know from the First Minister whether these are, in fact, Government and Cabinet-approved policies, and whether the Permanent Secretary was informed that the Secretary for education was going to make such commitments on behalf of the Welsh Government in public.

Jane Hutt AC: Thank you, Simon Thomas, for your questions. The first question is a very important point. Of course, you will be aware, I’m sure, that there is a leaking gas main and this obviously requires an essential work. Of course, in terms of handling that, and the impact on business, the public, and travel to school and work, all those issues have been taken into account by the Cabinet Secretary for economy, infrastructure and skills. Clearly, we will be doing everything to mitigate the impact of that in terms of diversions and handling, and we certainly will be reporting back, and also taking questions, I’m sure, as this work proceeds in terms of impact.Your second point is an interesting point because of course I well remember our time in coalition together, when similar sorts of statements and arrangements were made. But I would say also to the Member that, of course, we have been very clear as a Welsh Government, as we were, and indeed I think you were too in the fourth Assembly, about our support not only for the pupil deprivation grant but also for early years.

Mike Hedges AC: Can I ask for a statement on census data collection for the 2021 census? What input does either the National Assembly or Welsh Government have on the boundaries of lower super output areas? These data, as you know, are used by the Welsh Government to target anti-poverty programmes. The mix created can—and has in my constituency—led to some of the poorest parts missing out because they were joined, some of them, with affluent parts, with the data producing a fairly high average, even though there are areas that were suffering extreme deprivation. What can be done to try and get the census organised to create more homogenous data collection areas to try and stop that happening?

Jane Hutt AC: Well, Mike Hedges raises an important point and I know he will be aware that the design of those lower super output area boundaries is the responsibility of ONS, the Office for National Statistics. It’s part of their work in managing the England and Wales census, but we do feed into the governance of that census. We have a close working relationship, of course, with ONS, and regular consultations, and we do need to look at how to manage the impact where there is a particular population change affecting the sizes of those LSOAs. But, of course, as Mike Hedges said, this is something where attention can also be drawn to this in terms of consultation by Assembly Members.

Mark Isherwood AC: Diolch. Could I call for two statements, please, firstly on the application of local housing allowance to social rents for supported housing providers? Last Thursday, the UK Secretary of State for Work and Pensions announced that the UK Government was deferring application of the local housing allowance rates on social rents for supported housing until 2019-20 and would then be bringing in a new funding model where costs above the level of the local housing allowance rates in England would have funding devolved to local government for disbursement locally, but in Wales and Scotland an equivalent amount will be provided and it will be for those administrations, he said, to decide how best to allocate the funding. Having spoken at the annual general meeting of a large Supporting People provider in north Wales last Friday where this was raised—and also, very clearly, a concern that the Welsh Government should engage and explain its position on this over the next period of months—I’d be grateful if the Assembly could have a statement to explain how the Welsh Government proposes to respond to that.Secondly and finally, I’m grateful for a statement regarding the provision of nurses for children with life-shortening conditions. The charity Together for Short Lives has launched a new campaign, You Can Be That Nurse, to encourage more nurses to work with children with life-shortening conditions. They refer to evidence showing a shortage of qualified nurses providing children’s palliative care in the voluntary sector, including children’s hospices, and that this is having a negative impact for children with life-shortening conditions, not just across the UK, but Wales also. They say as part of the campaign they are asking the Welsh Government and healthcare workforce planners to take action to bring the average nursing vacancy rate among voluntary sector children’s palliative care organisations to below 10 per cent and closer to the NHS nurse vacancy rate across the UK. Again, a call on the Welsh Government, which merits a response from the Welsh Government, and we would welcome a statement accordingly.

Jane Hutt AC: I thank the Member for those questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children is fully aware of the issues relating to the application of local housing allowance and is involved in discussions, and it’s helpful, of course, to have feedback in terms of those impacts at a regional level for those engaged, but he’s clearly responding to those. On your second point, again, it’s an opportunity to draw attention to Together for Short Lives, the campaign that you mentioned. Of course, nurses are vital to our NHS, and we’ve increased the number of nurses in the service, but also, it’s about an effective skills mix and making sure that we have those highly experienced nurses to ensure that we can meet those needs as you described.

Vikki Howells AC: Leader of the house, it was good to join with you and many other Labour AMs outside the Senedd last week to support the women from all across Wales who are protesting against the unfair changes in women’s pension arrangements that have simply been steamrollered in by the UK Government. Could we have a statement from the Welsh Government on their assessment of the impact these changes have had, as forcing women to work longer will surely have serious repercussions on our economic and employment policies here in Wales?

Jane Hutt AC: I’d like to thank Vikki Howells for ensuring that there was a very strong presence, certainly from colleagues here. Huw Irranca-Davies, I think, and other Labour Assembly Members were there, and also MPs as well, because this isn’t devolved. It was a national day of action and I’m very impressed with the work of the campaign. And, of course, in the fourth Assembly, the former Minister, Lesley Griffiths, did actually write to the Minister of State for Pensions in February this year, expressing the Welsh Government’s concerns about the impact of the Pensions Acts of 1995 and 2011, calling for better transitional arrangements for those women affected by the changes. Of course, that national day of action drew attention to this again, and we will continue to raise those concerns.

3. 3. Statement: The Programme for Government—‘Taking Wales Forward’

The next item on the agenda is a statement by the First Minister on the programme for government. I call on the First Minister, Carwyn Jones.

Carwyn Jones AC: Thank you, Llywydd. It’s a pleasure to announce the publication of ‘Taking Wales Forward’, our programme for government for the next five years. It is a bold, strategic and ambitious programme, but also one that is focused unerringly on delivering real improvements in the everyday lives of the people of Wales. The document is clear, concise, and I want to ensure that everyone in Wales can pick it up and understand exactly what this Government will be doing for them over this Assembly term.Fel Llywodraeth, rydym ni am gael economi gryfach, decach, gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gwell a diwygiedig, a Chymru unedig, gysylltiedig, a chynaliadwy, ac mae ‘Symud Cymru Ymlaen’ yn amlinellu sut y byddwn yn ymdrin â'r dasg o gyflawni’r amcanion hynny. Bydd yr Aelodau'n gweld, er ei fod yn canolbwyntio ar y prif addewidion ym maniffesto Llafur Cymru, mae hefyd yn cynnwys elfennau allweddol y cytundeb â'r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, y daeth Kirsty Williams yn Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg yn eu sgil, a hefyd y meysydd blaenoriaeth y cytunwyd arnynt gyda Phlaid Cymru cyn toriad yr haf. Bydd yr Aelodau hefyd yn gweld ei bod yn ddogfen wahanol iawn i'r un a gyhoeddwyd gennym bum mlynedd yn ôl. Rwyf wedi bod yn glir ers cael fy mhenodi’n Brif Weinidog y bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn gweithio'n wahanol i rai eraill. Rydym yn awyddus i weithio'n greadigol gyda'r holl bartneriaid ledled Cymru i ddod o hyd i atebion i'r heriau yr ydym yn gwybod sy’n ein hwynebu.Yr ymrwymiadau a nodir yn 'Symud Cymru Ymlaen' yw ein prif ymrwymiadau. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom na fydd y rhain ar eu pennau eu hunain yn cyflawni ein huchelgais ar gyfer ein gwlad. Gwyddom hefyd bod y modd yr ydym yn cyflawni pethau yr un mor bwysig â'r hyn yr ydym yn ei gyflawni—y gall ystyried rhaglenni ar eu pennau eu hunain leihau eu heffaith, neu hyd yn oed greu problemau mewn mannau eraill. Dyna pam na fydd ein hagenda ar gyfer y Llywodraeth hon yn cael ei phennu’n ddigyfnewid wrth gyhoeddi 'Symud Cymru Ymlaen', ac mae heddiw yn nodi dechrau cyfnod pan fyddwn yn ystyried yn fwy manwl sut y gallwn weithio gyda'n gilydd a newid gwasanaethau er mwyn cyflawni ein blaenoriaethau.Bydd y pedwar maes a nodir heddiw yn sylfaen i’n hamcanion llesiant. Bydd datblygu pedair strategaeth drawsbynciol sydd wedi eu cydblethu yn ein galluogi i ystyried sut y gallwn ddefnyddio'r dulliau sydd ar gael i ni er mwyn cael yr effaith fwyaf. Felly, mae 'Symud Cymru Ymlaen' yn ymgorffori ein hymrwymiad i fod yn Llywodraeth agored a chynhwysol, gan ddefnyddio ymagwedd ‘yr hyn sy’n gweithio’ wrth geisio cyflawni ein hamcanion cenedlaethol a rennir, a gweithio gyda'r bobl sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i wneud gwahaniaeth yng Nghymru.Wrth gwrs, ers etholiadau'r Cynulliad, rydym wedi cael pleidlais y DU i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd—ac rydym yn dal i fod ymhell o fod yn glir ynglŷn â’u goblygiadau llawn, yn enwedig o ran cyllid cyhoeddus. Fel Llywodraeth, roeddem o’r farn ei bod yn ddarbodus ac yn gyfrifol i dreulio toriad yr haf yn edrych o’r newydd ar y rhagamcanion ariannol sydd ynghlwm â'r rhaglenni sydd wedi eu cynllunio. Ond, ni fyddwn yn gadael i’r ansicrwydd hwn bennu telerau'r Llywodraeth hon. Heddiw, gallaf gadarnhau, Lywydd, ein bod yn bwrw ymlaen â'n hymrwymiadau yn llawn. Y rhain oedd y polisïau y pleidleisiodd pobl Cymru drostynt, a'r rhain yw’r polisïau y byddwn yn eu cyflawni. Oes, mae yna benderfyniadau anodd o'n blaenau, a bydd angen i ni fod yn arloesol yn ein gwaith cyflawni, ond byddwn yn cadw at yr addewidion a wnaethom.Bydd sicrhau buddiannau cenedlaethol Cymru yn nhrafodaethau hir a chymhleth yr UE sydd o’n blaenau, wrth gwrs, yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i ni, ac rwy’n hyderus bod gennym y tîm cywir wedi’i sefydlu i ddarparu’r arweinyddiaeth genedlaethol gref sydd ei hangen.Ond nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth bod hon hefyd yn Llywodraeth sydd eisoes yn cyflawni, a bydd yn parhau i gyflawni ein hagenda ddomestig hefyd—y materion bob dydd sydd bwysicaf i bobl yn eu bywydau bob dydd.Lywydd, rydym am gael Cymru ffyniannus a diogel.Felly, byddwn yn torri trethi i 70,000 o fusnesau, yn creu banc datblygu Cymru, yn gweithredu'r cynnig gofal plant mwyaf hael yn y DU, yn creu o leiaf 100,000 o brentisiaethau ansawdd uchel ar gyfer pob oed, ac yn cyflwyno 20,000 o gartrefi fforddiadwy ychwanegol, rhai ohonynt trwy ein cynllun Cymorth i Brynu llwyddiannus sy’n parhau.Rydym am greu Cymru iach a gweithgar. Felly, byddwn yn recriwtio ac yn hyfforddi mwy o feddygon teulu, nyrsys a gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, yn dyblu'r cyfalaf y gall pobl ei gadw wrth fynd i ofal preswyl, yn cyflwyno cronfa driniaeth newydd i alluogi pobl i gael cyffuriau arloesol yn gyflym, yn buddsoddi i leihau amseroedd aros, ac yn gwneud yn siŵr bod ysgolion yn rhoi cychwyn egnïol mewn bywyd i blant.Rydym am greu Cymru uchelgeisiol sy’n dysgu. Felly, byddwn yn buddsoddi £100 miliwn ychwanegol i wella safonau ysgolion, yn cyflwyno cwricwlwm newydd i roi i ni'r sgiliau y mae eu hangen arnom, yn hybu rhagoriaeth addysgu, yn ymestyn y grant amddifadedd disgyblion, ac yn sicrhau system hael a chynhwysfawr i gefnogi myfyrwyr Cymru.Lywydd, rydym am gael Cymru unedig a chysylltiedig.Felly, byddwn yn darparu ffordd liniaru i'r M4, gwelliannau i'r A55, yr A40, a llwybrau allweddol eraill, system metro yn y de ac yng ngogledd ein gwlad, a band eang cyflym, dibynadwy i bob eiddo yng Nghymru.Byddwn yn gweithio tuag at gael 1 miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2050 ac yn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith o ddiwygio llywodraeth leol, sy'n gweithio gyda chynghorau i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau gorau i bawb, waeth ble y maent yn byw yng Nghymru.Lywydd, dim ond rhai o'n blaenoriaethau allweddol yn ‘Symud Cymru Ymlaen’ yw’r rhain, ac wrth gwrs ein blaenoriaethau yw gwella llesiant pawb.Yn yr ysbryd hwnnw, bydd pob un o'r rhain yn cael eu llunio a'u datblygu yn unol ag egwyddorion arweiniol Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015, gan ystyried sut y gall pob un o'n camau gweithredu gael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar draws yr ystod o bethau sydd bwysicaf i bobl Cymru.Ffyniannus a diogel, iach a gweithgar, uchelgeisiol ac sy’n dysgu, unedig a chysylltiedig—y rhain yw’r meysydd lle y gallwn gael yr effaith fwyaf, ac y gallwn gyfrannu at bob un o'r amcanion cenedlaethol.Nid yw hon yn agenda i ni fel Llywodraeth yn unig, ond i'r sector cyhoeddus cyfan i’w chefnogi a’i chyflwyno.Lywydd, mae’r rhaglen lywodraethu hon yn rhoi'r hyn y mae ei angen arnom er mwyn mynd i'r afael â'r heriau mawr sydd o'n blaenau, a gwneud y gwahaniaeth pendant i fywydau pobl y maent am ei weld. Mae’n ein galluogi ni i ymdrin â’r pum mlynedd nesaf â hyder, egni ac eglurder. Rydym wedi pennu’r uchelgais, ac rydym wedi nodi'r hyn y byddwn yn ei wneud i’w chyflawni, a nawr byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen a’i chyflawni.

Leanne Wood AC: Thank you, First Minister, for today’s statement, and for unveiling your much-anticipated programme for government.You’ve stated that the Government’s relentless focus for the next Assembly will be on improving Wales’s economy and public services. Is it not true that that’s been the Government’s focus for the past 17 years? Of course, I don’t think any party in this Chamber would disagree with such aims, or, indeed, many of the other aspirations outlined in the programme for government. There are many things in this that no-one could disagree with. It’s a wish list in many ways. It’s a list of platitudes. Who would not want to enable the people of Wales to live healthy and fulfilled lives, or for them to live in a more prosperous, healthy and united country, or to build a Wales that is more confident, more equal, better skilled and more resilient? The question is: after 17 years of a Labour-led Government, why are we not yet prosperous, healthy, equal or even united? Have you ever reviewed the success of previous programmes for government?A critical five years lies ahead for Wales, on that we can agree, and I’m eager to learn how your Government will both address the challenges and capitalise upon the opportunities that the people in this country currently face. We were led to believe that you were unveiling a five-year plan to take Wales forward today, and as such I’d hoped to learn in greater detail how, exactly, your Government will do just that. However, as was the case with your previous programmes for government, we’re offered an exhaustive list of objectives and priorities, but very little by way of detail as to how you will achieve them.Last week, Plaid Cymru published our programme for opposition—a comprehensive policy package that aims to markedly change this country—and it’s good to see many of Plaid Cymru’s policies included in your programme for government. Several of them are recognisable as being part of our post-election one-off agreement with the Government—a new drugs and treatments fund, a Welsh development bank, a national infrastructure commission for Wales, more free childcare for three and four-year-olds, and additional good-quality apprenticeships for all are matters we all agreed on as part of that compact. It’s good to see that the Government also intends to continue with Plaid Cymru’s intermediate care fund. These are commitments secured due to Plaid Cymru’s responsible opposition, and they will deliver tangible benefits to people’s lives.What this programme doesn’t do is tell us how it’ll be delivered. For example, you state in the programme that you will aim to secure successful, sustainable rural communities. This, of course, is something that we can all agree with, and I’m glad to see that your Government has listened to Plaid Cymru calls for the introduction of a small-grants scheme under the rural development scheme. However, you also note that you will support community-led projects, promote skills development, job creation, entrepreneurship, community energy, rural transport and broadband access. But, you provide no detail as to what this support might look like, so I’d be grateful if you could please elaborate on that point in your response, First Minister.What we have here today is a list of priorities, a description of problems, and a few Plaid Cymru policies added in. What we want is more detail. So, I ask the First Minister whether he can provide greater detail on the key commitments outlined in the programme for government. We want to know more about the ‘how’, not just about the ‘what’. You state that you will constantly seek new markets and investors from around the world and promote Wales as an active, international partner. Again, can you please tell us how? The programme notes that the Government will invest an additional £100 million to drive up school standards over the next term. The Welsh education secretary made it clear in a recent speech that there’s no binary choice between either investing in class sizes or in teaching—that they’re not mutually exclusive. Could the First Minister therefore confirm whether the pupil deprivation grant and the costs of reducing class sizes are in addition to that £100 million? As well, can you tell us what you’ll do if this doesn’t drive up standards? Another commitment that you make is to improve access to GP services. Now that’s something that’s been a long-term ambition of yours. The percentage of GP practices offering appointments after 6.30 p.m. has declined since 2012, while there are only a handful of GP practices offering weekend appointments in the whole of the country. So, tell us, how are you going to meet that commitment?Finally, it’s concerning that the programme for government makes so little reference to Brexit, given that it will almost certainly be one of the defining factors—if not the defining factor—influencing Welsh Government policy over the next five years. So, could I ask the First Minister which commitments have been specifically included in the programme for government to address the opportunities and challenges facing Wales following the vote to leave the European Union?The people of this country don’t look to their Government to reiterate the many challenges that they face, or to list or describe the problems that need to be solved. People are more than aware of the difficulties that they face. What people expect from their Government is leadership, answers, solutions. When and how does the First Minister intend to provide this?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I’m surprised to hear the leader of Plaid Cymru describe the policies that are included in this document as ‘platitudes’. Free childcare for working parents is a key pledge in the Labour manifesto; reducing tax for small businesses—a key pledge in the Labour manifesto; a development bank for Wales—both manifestos supported that; a new treatment fund for life-threatening illnesses—a key pledge in the Labour manifesto; increasing the capital limit for people going into residential care—a key pledge in the Labour manifesto; and 100,000 quality apprenticeships for all ages—a key pledge in the Labour manifesto. Now, of course, there are issues in here that weren’t in our manifesto and which reflect the discussions that we have had with her party. But, for her to say that, somehow, we come to the table with no ideas, given the fact that our manifesto was chock-full of them and those ideas are included in this programme for government, alongside others, of course, does not cut the mustard.As far as the suggestion that it is a wish list, it isn’t a wish list. In 2011-16, we delivered on every promise we made—every promise we made. People knew that on the doorstep and they appreciated that on the doorstep. As a result, we wanted to produce a programme for government that did not make a wish list of promises that couldn’t be delivered and couldn’t be paid for, but to have promises that were in place that could be paid for. That’s why it took us until the summer to look at what the situation would be post Brexit, to make sure that we could be sure and that we could say to the people of Wales that we could deliver on these promises even with Brexit. We can’t have a document that simply talks mainly or wholly about Brexit. People know that’s happening; it’s hugely important now that we get on with delivering for the people according to what the manifestos have said. People want to know what’s going to happen with health and education, they want to know what’s going to happen with housing—and 20,000 more houses are going to be provided, of course—and they want to know that the Government that is in place will deliver on the promises that it has made, and we’ve done exactly that.In terms of the economy, well, we’ve the lowest unemployment of England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland in Wales. We have the lowest. We’ve the lowest youth unemployment, and we’ve the best foreign direct investment figures for 30 years. These are coming about through hard work. People do not come to Wales unless you go out and sell yourselves around the world. When I became First Minister, much of the overseas operation had been shut down, I have to say. Many of the offices had gone, and there was no real overseas activity. That had to be rebuilt. And we see what has happened as a result of that. We see the work that has been done with employers like Aston Martin, who have come to Wales because of—and these are their words—the passion and professionalism of the Welsh Government. You have to go out and fight for these opportunities.When it comes to rural communities, yes, we will deliver for rural communities. One example I can give is broadband. By the summer of next year, 96 per cent of premises will have access to superfast broadband. That wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for the fact that money had been provided from the public purse for that to happen, because the market would never ever have done that. We have delivered as a Welsh Government broadband to many, many communities that would never have had it otherwise, and we are proud of that.When it comes to some of the other issues that she raised, we’re more than happy with our pledge for the £100 million for education. We will continue to build schools across Wales, even as they are not built in England. We will continue to invest in education, both in terms of buildings, yes, but also in terms of the workforce.We have seen more and more GP practices remaining open into the evenings, and some on weekends. We need to see further progress in terms of weekends, that much is true. But, what we have here is a programme for government that is strategic, that is deliverable, that is affordable and one that we as a party stood on in the election and, of course, we’ve reached out to other parties in order to put this programme for government together. We will continue to work with all those who want to stand up for Wales and deliver the best for our country, and this document reflects the discussions that have taken place.

Andrew RT Davies AC: First Minister, thank you for your statement this afternoon. It is somewhat disheartening to see that the collective intellectual might of Plaid Cymru, the Welsh Labour Party and the Liberals have come up with a document that runs to 15 pages, and that includes the front cover. Fifteen pages for five years’ worth of government hardly fills you with confidence, I have to say. Obviously, it’s a pale imitation of the 666 pages that the previous Welsh Government, of which he was First Minister, delivered the last time they delivered a programme for government. But I do genuinely hope that the Welsh Government does succeed. You might find it odd to hear that from an opposition leader but, ultimately, if you do not succeed, it is the people and the communities the length and breadth of Wales who will ultimately suffer. So, people go to the polls, they vote and this Assembly convenes. But it is rather disheartening to say the least—it’s disheartening to say the least—that this is the best effort that the Welsh Government can come up with for a five-year programme for government when we were told that they needed to spend a summer to reflect—reflect—on their priorities.Actually, when you look at what the First Minister achieved in the last Assembly, in which his flagship policy was the Williams commission, which was going to reorganise local government and he was going to drive this through and reform the map of local government in Wales, irrespective of what people thought of that, it does show the limitations of this First Minister in his ability to drive through change and drive through a programme for government. And that is a real, real Achilles heel for anything that sits in this document, because the First Minister has proven within his first term that he is unable to deliver for the people of Wales and, indeed, the commissions and operations that he does set up. I do hope that the First Minister will actually graft this term and actually deliver the changes that will improve people’s lives, whether that be in education, whether that be in the economy or whether that be in the NHS.I do hope that, in responding to the questions that I will put to him, he will be able to confirm that this programme for government, by the end of 2021, will put the Welsh education system over and above the Vietnamese education system, which is where we are ranked at the moment in the league tables. So, will he confirm that the education initiatives—it’s hardly a brilliant goal to aim for but will he give us a target that we will be above the Vietnamese when it does come to 2021? When it comes to the economy, will the First Minister confirm that, by 2021, this programme for government—this programme for government—will make us more economically prosperous than areas of Romania and Bulgaria, where we are matched against at this moment in time, and that’s after 17 years of Welsh Labour in Government here? Will he, at the end of this period in 2021, confirm that this programme for government will deliver an NHS that will not have the longest waiting times of any NHS in the United Kingdom? Those are three simple questions that I hope he will be able to respond to and say, ‘Yes, yes, yes’, so that, in 2021, we will be able to benchmark him against his Government’s performance.But I do think the one thing that is a damning indictment of 17 years of Labour failure is this document that talks about bringing forward a new treatment fund, when we spent the whole of the last Assembly making the point about a cancer drugs fund and access to medicines here in Wales. The document itself, after 17 years of Labour in Government, talks of a‘postcode lottery for drugs and treatments not routinely available on the NHS’in Wales. You have been running the NHS for 17 years, First Minister. It is your party that has created that postcode lottery for access to medicines across Wales. So, when we look at this programme for government, we can clearly see no real change of course, no real change of direction, just more of the same. And I just hope that, ultimately, the First Minister will get to grips with the situation and start delivering both economically, educationally and for our NHS so that people will not feel let down again at the end of this fifth Assembly.

Carwyn Jones AC: I think it’s important to remind the leader of the Conservatives of one thing: he lost the election. He tried all this before May. He made all these points and, in fact, his party went backwards. Many of us remember he was on tv saying, ‘I will be First Minister’. He was doing it at 10 o’clock on the night of the election. I look at Ken Skates because his people were saying that Ken had lost his seat. He lost the election. He has to understand that, and to use the same old tired arguments over and over and over again—we need to see some new thinking from the Welsh Conservatives. I think the people of Wales would benefit from the Welsh Conservatives working as an active opposition not as a party that continuously rolls out the same old arguments that they continue to lose.On education, we’re happy with the progress that’s been made with GCSEs, and, with A-levels, we’re seeing great progress there. We’re seeing buildings going up across Wales. I was in the Deeside sixth last week—a brand new building. That wouldn’t have been built if it had been a few miles over the border, not in a month of Sundays, because those programmes were stopped by the UK Government, by his party. We’re proud of that. When it comes to the economy, yes, we’re making up for the 1980s and 1990s that his party created. We’re proud of the fact that unemployment is 4.1 per cent. That would have been unimaginable under the Tories. Can you imagine that—that young people are invested in, that Jobs Growth Wales is probably the most successful scheme of its type in Europe if not around the world? We are happy with that. We know that there is still a challenge for raising GDP, but now we see more and more jobs coming into Wales that are better paid and better skilled. People don’t see Wales as the cheap wage destination that his party promoted in the 1990s. That’s the way Wales was promoted in the 1990s. The people of Wales deserve high-quality jobs, and that’s what we are delivering.When it comes to the NHS, we don’t have an NHS where doctor strikes are provoked. That’s one thing I can promise the people of Wales we will not do, and we will continue to deliver the best healthcare, making sure that it’s financed and, of course, delivering on a new treatments fund, different to what the party opposite suggested. They dropped it in England, of course—it’s gone; the cancer drugs fund is gone in England, so they’ve missed the boat on that one. What we have in place is something far more comprehensive, and, to my mind, far fairer because it takes into account all people with life-threatening illnesses, not just cancer, and that was hugely important. Let me just put one thing to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives: my party, Kirsty Williams, Plaid Cymru and UKIP share one thing in common, and that is that we all say that Wales should not lose a penny of European funding as a result of Brexit. UKIP have been saying that. He doesn’t. Will he support the people of Wales and say that Wales should not lose one single penny of funding as a result of Brexit? Is he really the leader of the Welsh Conservatives or London’s representative in the Welsh Conservative party? That’s the issue that he has to answer. Let him stand up for Wales, make the case with his colleagues in Westminster and say as leader of the Welsh Conservatives, ‘I will not tolerate Wales losing out a penny as a result of European exit’, just like every other party in this Chamber and just like every single person in Wales would want to see.

Neil Hamilton AC: In one thing, at least, I agree with the leader of the opposition, in that what we’ve heard today from the Welsh Government is a potpourri of platitudes. The one thing it will do is at least help the Government meet its recycling targets, because we’ve heard it all before many times—twice previously since I’ve been in this place from the beginning of May. If you look through the transport section—repackaging the improvements to the M4, the A55, the A40, the south Wales metro, the new not-for-profit rail franchise—there’s nothing in the transport section at all that we have not heard before. Twenty thousand affordable homes—that was announced last June and that was a Lib Dem policy, not a Labour policy anyway. So, it’s all motherhood and apple pie. And it’s a bit of a cheek, really, for the First Minister to say that this is what the people of Wales voted for. He seems to forget that, in the election, two-thirds of the people of Wales voted against the Labour Party; he lost the election. I’m sorry to see from the foreword to this document that the First Minister is still a miserabilist about Brexit, because he’s still saying that every objective analysis of the potential impact of Brexit says we should be prepared for a shrinking economy. Nothing could be further from the truth; all the economic figures that have been released since the summer show the economy expanding, and there’s no reason to think that this is not going to continue. So, what we’ve got in this document is just a load of meaningless guff. We had some choice examples that were quoted by the leader of the opposition. In local government, they’re going to build a shared understanding of the challenges facing local government and wider public services; develop wider conversation about the reform needed on further and higher education; prioritise support for enhanced links between education and industry; better utilise our existing relationships with Welsh universities; consult further on the specific recommendations of the Hazelkorn review on housing; continue long-term collaboration with housebuilders to deliver accelerated rates of housebuilding—not a single house will be built on the basis of words alone; explore options to end land banking. It’s all words—there’s no action at all which could possibly come from it.And, on the very important section on agriculture—work with partners to secure a prosperous future for Welsh agriculture. Well, who wouldn’t? But we’ve heard nothing about bovine TB. We hear nothing about the threat to the viability of farms from nitrate-vulnerable zones. We hear nothing about the collapse in farm incomes. At least in the UKIP manifesto, we promised that we would reallocate parts of the agriculture budget by putting a cap upon the subsidies that would be paid out to farmers at £125,000 a year, so that the real beneficiaries of the common agricultural policy in Britain would be the small farmers, the family farms and not the agri-businesses and the multinational companies. There’s nothing of that kind at all in this document.On business rates, we can welcome smaller bills—[Interruption.] We can welcome smaller bills for up to 70,000 firms, but why not have a root-and-branch reform of the entire clunking property taxes system, where we can relate what is charged to the profitability of the businesses that have to pay them so that we don’t have this block upon setting up new businesses because of the hurdles they have to jump on business rates?Fast reliable broadband to every house—by 2021, I presume. I hope the First Minister can deliver, and, like the leader of the Conservative Party, I want him to say today that, yes, every single property in Wales—that’s what it says in this document—will be connected to fast and reliable broadband by 2021. On apprenticeships, again, we can welcome cautiously what is said in this document about apprenticeships, but what we must be sure of is that big companies, multinationals in particular, are not just paying people at apprenticeship rates and not providing proper, substantive qualifications as a result, but just producing equivalent qualifications that are of no possible economic value in the workplace.Lastly, on the health service, which is, of course, an unrelieved catalogue of failure after 20 years of Labour Government, with half the hospital boards in this country in special measures—what about the GP crisis? We’ve raised in this Chamber in the last few weeks, from all parties—Simon Thomas has raised problems in Newtown, I’ve raised problems in Blaenau Ffestiniog, and Paul Davies has today raised problems with GPs in his own constituency in Pembrokeshire? We’ve heard nothing—nothing in this document—that will take us any further forward in solving the problems of GP recruitment. As for closer links between health and social services, this is vitally necessary, but when are we going to put some meat upon these bare bones that we’ve heard today?So, I hope, like the leader of the Conservative party, that the First Minister is able to deliver on the vapid promises that he’s made in this document today, but let’s have some detail, let’s have something we can really debate about, not just empty words.

Carwyn Jones AC: I welcome his comments from outside Wales and suggest to him that he would carry more weight—

Neil Hamilton AC: That’s silly.

Carwyn Jones AC: No, it’s not silly. They’d carry more weight if he actually lived in Wales if he’s going to criticise what we’ve done within Wales. I think that’s perfectly fair—perfectly fair.As far as he says there’s no detail here, well, free childcare for working parents, the detail is there; the development bank, the detail’s there; the reduced taxes for small businesses, that detail is there; the treatment fund; the capital limit; the action to train GPs; the apprenticeships; the school standards; the infrastructure commission; the metro; the M4. These are not vague words, these are policies that we are determined to take forward to improve the lives of the people of Wales. There is a budget yet to come before this Assembly, and there is legislation that is yet to come before this Assembly as well.Is he saying that we get rid of nitrate-vulnerable zones? Because, I tell you what, there are many people in Wales who’d be very concerned at that and what it would mean for the rivers and what it would mean for some of our estuaries, particularly. They’re there for a reason, they’re not there to try and do something that has no sense at all. They’re there for a reason in terms of protecting our environment.I have to say to him: he talks about health and social services; we are doing that. He will know that the last Assembly saw legislation looking at strengthening social services and enabling social services to work more closely with health. If he looks at the legislation that’s been passed here over the past—well, since we’ve had the powers in 2011—he will see that these are issues that we have addressed and will continue to address as part of the legislative programme going forward for this year and beyond. He will see that what we have put in this programme for government will lead to the promises that we have made being delivered on. It is the easiest thing in the world to make wild promises that are uncosted and then find you can’t deliver on them; we resisted that in the election and we resist it now, because the people of Wales know that what we say we will do, we’ll do.

All leaders have now spoken, so I ask for questions from Members as I call them. Jenny Rathbone.

Jenny Rathbone AC: I note with interest that you obviously highlight the fact that we have an obligation to reduce our carbon emissions by 80 per cent by 2050, and you also highlight the importance of the south Wales and north Wales metro, as well as getting all local authorities to deliver on joined up active travel. How do you think we’ll be able to measure the progress on these bits of the programme and what target do you think we should be setting in the interim basis to ensure that, suddenly, in 2040, we don’t realise that we haven’t met our obligations?

Carwyn Jones AC: I think there are a number of ways of doing that. Improving the public transport offer is absolutely key and, by that, I don’t just mean the metro—important though that is—but encouraging cycling. The Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, of course, was hugely important in terms of starting the process of, and I use the word, as far as the public are concerned, ‘normalising’ cycling—that, where a new road is built, a cycle path is automatically built with it. I think that’s absolutely the way of the future. In some ways, the people who built the old Briton Ferry bridge were ahead of their time by putting a cycle track on the bridge in the 1960s. That is what we have to encourage: that, where we have road schemes, therefore, cycling is part of that, where we can segregate cyclists from cars—[Inaudible.]—as well, of course. We know that there are some parts of Wales where there’s so much traffic that cars are idling and the air quality’s poor. Unless that’s dealt with, it’ll continue to be poor.But, for me, it’s about making sure that the public transport system that we have is second to none, that it’s cheap, it’s reliable, it’s comfortable and it’s safe. That’s what the two metro systems have been designed to deliver: to make it far easier for people to feel they don’t need their cars. If you look at the north of Cardiff, for example, there is no way of building a road to the north of Cardiff that’ll help with the A470, but there are opportunities for increasing the frequency on the railway lines and, indeed, looking at light rail options further on down the line in order to provide those options. In doing that, of course, we can help then to look to reduce carbon reductions as far as transport is concerned.

Simon Thomas AC: What we are seeking now is detail, First Minister, and there are a number of things that are missing or very weak in the programme at the moment. May I ask you specifically, therefore, starting with that point that Jenny Rathbone made, you talked about ‘making progress towards’ reducing carbon emissions by 2050, but have you therefore dropped the target of reducing carbon emissions by 40 per cent by 2020? Because there is no target here now, just some goal to ‘make progress towards’.The second point, on saving energy, I can’t see any reference in the programme to any energy saving programme. Will the Government have such a programme and a housing renewal programme in order to save costs and energy?There is no mention of a TB eradication programme. Is it still the Government’s intention to have such a TB eradication programme in our rural areas?Finally, there is no mention in this new programme for government of one of the major things that the previous Government had, which is Communities First. Where is Communities First and are you committed to retaining the same funding for Communities First as has existed in the past?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, first of all, this isn’t a document with all the detail, as he will understand, because this is a strategic document to give you the Government’s direction. As regards carbon, one of the things that we can’t do anything about are the non-devolved issues, but that doesn’t mean to say that we’re not going to do anything because of that. We must ensure that fewer and fewer people travel in cars. That’s one thing that we can do. But we know, of course, that we must support industries such as the steel industry to reduce the emissions here. But we must also ensure that we don’t do anything that creates a situation where they move out of Wales. So, there is a balance that we must strike there.As regards TB, TB is still important. We know that we must continue to reduce the number of stock that are actually infected with TB, and that’s crucial for rural areas; I understand that.As regards Communities First, everything, of course, is considered in the budget process. The budget itself has not been presented to the Assembly as yet, but it’s true to say that, while we are progressing some of the pledges in this programme, difficult decisions will have to be made about every department of Government. But what is important is that we should adhere to the four themes that I’ve alluded to, and that’s exactly what we intend to do.

Angela Burns AC: Minister, I’d like to understand what your ambition is for the health of the people of Wales. Fifty-one per cent of our population at present are battling with some form of illness. I would like to understand where you would like to see that position by the year 2021.Reading through your ‘Taking Wales Forward’ document, I’ve noticed again that you major on the fact that you’d like to establish a parliamentary review into the long-term future of health and social care in Wales. I’ve had the great good fortune to have had a number of discussions with the Cabinet Secretary on this. I would like to make it very clear, though, that, whilst the Welsh Conservatives believe that this has the opportunity to deliver a blueprint for national leadership and strategic planning, I would not like to see this parliamentary review as an opportunity to kick a number of difficult decisions the NHS in Wales will have to take into the long grass.So, Minister, can you assure us that this parliamentary review will not deflect you from putting an enormous amount of energy into resolving the crises that we have in primary healthcare? I’ve noted in your programme, ‘Taking Wales Forward’, that you’re going to put a lot of effort into the recruitment of GPs—something we’ve discussed, and something I’ve discussed with the Cabinet Secretary—but I would also like you to come back and ask or perhaps tell us whether you’re going to be putting the same kind of levels of effort into ensuring that we have adequate nurses, physiotherapists, clinical psychologists and occupational therapists, because we do have a real crisis brewing there. Hywel Dda Local Health Board: 30 per cent of their general practice nurses have indicated that they’re going to be leaving in the next five years. That’s an enormous number, and that’s just one health board.You talk about increasing investment in facilities to reduce waiting times. First Minister, waiting times is one of the areas that I think the Welsh Labour Government have failed in substantially: 14.3 per cent of Wales’s total population remains on a waiting list. What I would like to understand is: how do you anticipate reducing these waiting times, and where does it stack up in your priority for healthcare?I’d like to, finally, Presiding Officer, turn to your commentary here on mental health and well-being. I would say to you that mental health has been, for some time, the poor relation in health service provision in Wales. Children’s mental health has a very poor level of funding. At present, it’s about £13.50 per head of population of children. In comparison, £65 is spent per head on older people’s mental health services. First Minister, do you intend to put more funding into mental health services? Do you intend to put more funding into child and adolescent mental health services? Are you able to tell us today when you intend to bring forward the additional learning needs Bill? First Minister, will you be considering bringing forward an autism Act, and will you accept that mental health services are very difficult to deliver in a rural model as, indeed, are all health services? So, I’d finally like to ask you: will you commit to looking at—or do you intend to look at—how we might be able to develop a rural health model that can sit alongside the national health service so that people in the rural areas of Wales, which are substantially, in terms of land mass, by far and away the greater part of Wales—they may not be so in population terms—actually enjoy equality and freedom and the right to access healthcare services as near to them as possible and in a really timely manner? Because they are in danger of becoming yet another orphan within the NHS family.

Carwyn Jones AC: A number of questions there: first of all, when we look at health, we have to remember that our population is older than the UK average, and generally less well than the UK average. Part of that is the legacy of mining and the legacy of heavy industry, which we’re still dealing with. We intend, of course, to keep on funding health in Wales at a level per head that is higher than in England. The parliamentary review clearly can’t get in the way of decision making. There are difficult decisions that have to be made in health. I’ve been in this Chamber when a decision is made and it’s almost like one of Newton’s laws: there’s an equal and opposite reaction, where there will be opposition to a particular course of action, but quite often that needs to be taken forward. One of the issues that I’m absolutely determined not to see is that people in rural Wales have a worse service than people in urban Wales because they live in rural Wales and because it’s better to have a local service than a specialised service. I’ve never believed that. We’ve seen it in Aberystwyth, for example, where colorectal cancer surgery was moved from Bronglais to Cardiff. The survival rates went up. I know it’s further away but, actually, the outcomes for people were far better. Sometimes, I agree, it is important to have treatment as close as possible, whether it’s with the pharmacy or the GP, or through practice nurses or through the hospitals, but there will be conditions that will need to have very specialised services to give people a better chance and a better outcome. That balance is never an easy one to achieve.With GPs and the nurses, I mentioned in my speech that it goes beyond the GP workforce, but nurses and other professions as well. What we must avoid doing—yes, we do need to recruit and train more, I follow that, but we need to avoid giving the impression that Wales is not a place that doctors from overseas want to come. We’ve always recruited from other countries. Other countries have always recruited from the UK. It’s an international market. I would not want the impression to be given that the UK is a more difficult place to come to work, because we do rely—and always will rely—on professionals coming in from other countries. The further west you go, in terms of hospitals, the more that reliance can be. So, we must absolutely make sure that we are seen as a welcoming place for medics and nurses to practice in the future.In terms of some of the other issues that you mentioned, well, it is not correct that 14.3 per cent of people are on a waiting list. There are two points to make there. First of all, you are on a waiting list as soon as you are referred from a GP—that day, almost. So, that’s not a fair comparison, I would argue. Secondly, many of the people are being counted more than once because they are on more than one waiting list. There are issues that we have explored in this Chamber over the past five years, in terms of improving waiting times, but there are issues that are the same across the UK. We know from the Nuffield report that health services across the UK are in a broadly similar position and face similar challenges.She raises an important point about mental health. We took the decision some years ago to ring-fence mental health spending. CAMHS: it is true to say that the demand outstrips supply very quickly. That is true. That is why we have put more money into CAMHS, in order to make sure that enough resource was going into it, so that there weren’t extraordinarily long waiting times. It proved popular as a service, and being able to catch up was hugely important. On the ALN Bill, I think that I have already announced that has been confirmed for introduction in this year of the Government’s legislative programme. We are still considering where a piece of autism legislation would go. In terms of the rural model, there’s one thing I disagree with her on. I don’t agree that rural healthcare necessarily costs more than healthcare in Valleys communities. Of course, in many of our upper Valleys communities, people’s state of health is not as good. So, quite often, the costs of looking after them can be higher than people who live in rural Wales. Nevertheless, there are issues in rural Wales that have to be resolved, and the mid-Wales collaborative is a good example of how professionals can work together and with Government to deliver a rural health service. That’s a good example that has worked well and could serve as a good example for the rest of Wales. So, yes, the challenges are there, but we are up for those challenges to deliver the best for people, wherever they live—urban, rural, north, south, east or west.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, as you’re aware, I’ve long campaigned to turn the A40 in my constituency into a dual carriageway, and I note that there was a reference in your programme for government to improve the A40 in west Wales, which, without doubt, will improve the economy of Pembrokeshire. Given that the former Minister in your previous Government had noted the benefits of dualling the A40 and the benefits that would come to west Wales, can you confirm that you haven’t discounted the possibility of dualling the A40 in Pembrokeshire?

Carwyn Jones AC: No. We know that that is vital. But, what is problematic, of course, is the position as regards European funding, ultimately. It’s also true to say that we need to look at the route from St Clears to Haverfordwest and ensure that that is improved. But, no, we haven’t forgotten the A40. We understand its importance, and it’s very important in order to get the traffic up to Fishguard and the ferry that departs from there. But, the improvements to the A40 remain on the agenda.

Suzy Davies AC: Thank you for your statement, First Minister. In it you mentioned a ‘what works’ approach and innovative delivery. There’s a nod in the shared challenge and opportunities section of your pamphlet today to the Government not having a monopoly on good ideas nor on delivery. In which portfolio areas do you anticipate seeing more co-production, more localism and less command and control by local government and central Government?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I think there’s great scope for looking to devolve services locally where the structure is right. I don’t believe the structure is right at this moment in time with our 22 local authorities. Working with them, we would like to get to a position where we have a structure in place where they can deliver more effectively, where they don’t have departments that effectively begin to collapse because one or two people are on the sick or have left the department, and to make local government more sustainable in that regard. I don’t think the structure is there at the moment. But, as that structure is developed, working with the local authorities, I think there are opportunities there to look to devolve more services locally. But the structure has to be right first.

Nick Ramsay AC: First Minister, how are you planning to improve your Government’s procurement policies, particularly in support of small businesses across Wales? Secondly, you pledged to invest in the transformation of the hospital estate in today's statement. Can you give us an update on a completion date for the new critical care centre in Cwmbran? There seems to be some confusion over this.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, it's still a priority for us, of course. We know how important modern facilities are, and that work is still ongoing in terms of the business case process. In terms of the other issues raised on procurement, I think we covered that quite extensively in First Minister's questions. The key for small businesses, quite often, is to be able to work together with other small businesses to bid for bigger contracts. Agriculture was a real problem in this regard some years ago, but now is a good example of where we looked at the—. I'll give an example: we looked at the supply of beef into the Welsh NHS. Farmers said to me, ‘Well, we don't get any beef in’, and they were right, but the problem was there was no supplier in Wales who could supply the NHS day in, day out, week in, week out, month in, month out. They couldn't do it; they weren't big enough. That was resolved by looking to get suppliers working together to resolve that issue of supply, and the same thing has happened with other small businesses. We've been providing advice as to how they can go about doing that. So, whilst it is true to say that we must make sure we don't have contracts that are so big that it's not even possible for small businesses acting together to bid successfully for them, it's also important to make sure that businesses work together to be big enough in order to bid for contracts that are within their grasp.

Darren Millar AC: First Minister, I was very pleased to see the reference to the A55 and improvements that the Welsh Government wants to make to the A55 in your programme for government, but there's not a great deal of detail in what those improvements may or may not be. You'll be aware that we've got congestion problems on some parts of the A55. We've had flooding problems in the past and there is no hard shoulder for many miles of the A55 as well, which causes problems when there’s a breakdown or an accident. Can you tell us precisely which stretches of the A55 those improvements may or may not be made on over the next five years in terms of some progress?Can you also refer, in addition to that, to any progress that you might be able to inform us about in terms of the development of the sub-regional neonatal intensive care centre in north Wales? I was very pleased to hear the Cabinet Secretary for health in the committee last week make reference to some progress on this, but can you still reassure the people of north Wales that this will be delivered in accordance with the timescales that you have previously set? I am concerned that there may be some delays in the process at the moment.And, just finally, there is reference to free childcare in the document as well. I'm very pleased to see that you're following the lead of the UK Conservative Government on the free childcare commitments that they have made, but one of the concerns that has been raised with me is that there was a document that was commissioned, a piece of work that was commissioned, by the previous Minister for education in relation to squashing the school week to four days, rather than over the current five-day period. That, of course, would create some turbulence in the childcare market, if we can call it that. What consideration have you given to that as part of your programme for government, and will you join me in dismissing the suggestion of a four-day week in our schools this afternoon?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, first of all, on the A55, if we start eastwards, we know there are issues around the junctions further east and the issues around the junction with the A494. The Llanfairfechan and Penmaenmawr roundabouts are going, so that the problem will disappear on that stretch of the road. If we go further west, we're still looking at the issue of a third Menai crossing. The A55 is not a true dual carriageway, given the fact that it's a single carriageway over the Britannia bridge, and that is—I've seen it myself often enough—a real choke point as well. No-one would build a road to that standard now—I mean, there are no hard shoulders, and it's a major route. One of the issues we’ll be looking at over the next five years is to see where the road can be widened and where funds can be allocated for that to happen, but Llanfairfechan and Penmaenmawr are the first two areas that will be looked at.He mentions flooding. The issues in Talybont are resolving with the help of Gwynedd Council. The issues between Aber and Tai’r Meibion again have been taken forward, with the flooding that occurred there. But the issue for the A55 to me is getting rid of the roundabouts to help the flow of traffic, and, of course, in time, widening the road to a standard that we would expect—even a hard shoulder, which isn't even there in some parts of the road now.On the SuRNICC, there is no delay. The SuRNICC is proceeding as planned. He would have heard me say many, many times in this Chamber that the SuRNICC was my decision to place in Glan Clwyd, and I stand by that decision. It will move ahead; I can give him that assurance.In terms of free childcare, well, I mean, I'm not sure what his party's policy was on free childcare in the election in May. It wasn't detailed, but from our perspective, we said what we would do in terms of 48 weeks a year, in terms of 30 hours of free childcare, and that’s exactly what we intend to deliver.On the PPIW report, it’s just that—a report. It’s not Government policy. It’s not long been delivered, actually, in the past week. It’s not something that is under active consideration.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: First Minister, thank you very much for this statement. I think four times you pledged in your statement that you want a Wales where the prosperity is right from the top. Actually, I represent the region that has the poorest population in the United Kingdom. The thing is, I’m glad that at least you have accepted it, and this is your first pledge: that you are going to bring prosperity after 17 years now. Can I ask your Government what is the intention to strengthen ties between education, employment, employment agencies and the local business communities, and to ensure that apprentices have work-ready skills that are more aligned to economic demands, irrespective of age or gender, in Wales? Thank you.

Carwyn Jones AC: This is hugely important. He will know that, last week, I launched an initiative to link skills to employment and education. He welcomed it publicly, and I thank him for that. It is European funded, of course, some of it, but it was something that found favour with him. We know full well that it is hugely important that, as we identify which skills are needed for the future in Wales, we work with employers and work with the education sector to make sure that (a) the skills are identified, and (b) that they’re provided.One of the questions I always get asked by potential investors into Wales is ‘Have your people got the skills that we need?’ It’s not about ‘How cheap are you?’ anymore; it’s ‘Have you got the skills?’ We are able to answer those questions, and that shows, of course, with the numbers of new investors that have been coming in over the past five years.

Mark Isherwood AC: Given that wage levels in Wales remain below the levels in Scotland and England, that child poverty levels in Wales remain above the UK average, that working-age worklessness levels in Wales remain above the UK average, and that prosperity per head in Wales, measured by the value of goods and services produced, remains the lowest amongst the 12 UK nations and regions—and the gap has actually widened—how do you propose to work differently with the voluntary and private sectors in order to finally turn those negative results round and impact positively on those communities who are stubbornly trapped in that situation?You talk about helping communities take ownership of community assets where appropriate. Given that—I hope you’ll agree—the most important asset in our communities is people, how will you engage at last with the global co-production revolution that began almost half a century ago, by working with the co-production network for Wales, launched on 26 May, backed by Big Lottery funding, and backed by scores of statutory and voluntary organisations across Wales, who are getting on with the revolution, but need you to buy in and do things differently? You refer to the metro system in the north of the country. How will you engage with the north Wales growth vision, and with ‘Team North Wales’, the statutory, voluntary and private sectors united behind that vision, which doesn’t mention the metro in its document anywhere, to ensure that what the Welsh Government proposes is in line with what the region is asking for? Note that the word is not in the document, although many of the other projects needed by the region, some of which you referred to, are. But, above all, the powers should be devolved to the region to take that forward.Finally, in terms of some of the matters that Angela referred to, you sort of skated over autism legislation. I again chaired a meeting of the cross-party autism group, in this case in north Wales, last Friday. I can tell you that the autism community in Wales is completely united over the need for legislation, because it impacts so adversely on their lives, because the strategy has failed to deliver, because they need statutory duties on sector providers, they need assurance over diagnosis and post-diagnostic support and they need to tackle the atrocious levels around training and awareness. Similarly and finally, the deaf community in Wales is calling for the Welsh Government to look at British Sign Language legislation. The Scottish Government has introduced legislation, and Northern Ireland is looking at how, within their powers, they could do something there. What is the Welsh Government proposing to do so that, again, the disabling experience of too many deaf people, because of the barriers that aren’t being removed, can be tackled?

Carwyn Jones AC: In terms of child poverty, it wasn’t exactly helped by the bedroom tax or the cuts that were made to the welfare system, which his party has to take responsibility for. What I said earlier on is this: on many economic indicators, we have done incredibly well. The challenge is to keep on increasing our people’s collective gross domestic household income and, ultimately, gross domestic product. That is happening. The days when Wales was being sold as a cheap place to do business are long gone. The jobs that we are attracting are well-paid jobs, they’re committed to Wales, and that will see our GDP per head increase. Of that, I have no doubt over the medium term.In terms of community assets, we’ve got no difficulty with co-production. We seek to work with people to draw on their expertise as to how we take that forward. In terms of the metro, the metro is there. We will work with all organisations in order to deliver it. Of course, the metro is designed to ensure that the economy of the north-east of Wales works in co-prosperity with the economy of the north-west of England—we know that the metro itself is not going to be self-contained in the north-east of Wales—in order to deliver prosperity for both regions.In terms of autism, we’re not opposed to autism legislation in principle. That’s something that we will continue to explore, and he makes an interesting suggestion when it comes to British Sign Language and how we can ensure that BSL is better recognised and better entrenched in our community. That’s something on which we are happy to take views and keep an open mind.

And finally, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: First Minister, I’m somewhat baffled by the lack of mention of local government in your programme for government, particularly so when you’ve been using rhetoric about what was in the manifesto. Well, it was, actually, in fact, in your manifesto that you do recognise the vital role of local government—‘so we will seek to create stronger, larger local authorities, as well as stronger town and community councils, leading to the devolution of powers from Cardiff Bay.’Now, just how are you going to do that after the shambles of the previous term? You’ve left many local authorities, which include very principled and hard-working officers, elected members and front-line workers, in complete disarray. Statements from your party only last week mentioning that the plan is now on hold for 10 years provides yet even more uncertainty, and I think, actually, it’s an absolutely disgrace that you’ve completely omitted any mention of local government, be it reform or what you intend to do. These services that are delivered by local government are actually seen by many residents as far more worthy and more important to them than how you operate here as a Welsh Government. So, I would really like to ask what plans you have—tell us, tell the Chamber, tell the people of Wales, just how you intend to take local government forward and to actually put behind us once and for all the absolute fiasco and shambles that your Government left us in in the previous term.

Carwyn Jones AC: I’d argue that the shambles was created in the mid-90s—we can argue much of the afternoon about that—with the 22 authorities that were created and, indeed, their boundaries. Why would somebody take some of our poorest authorities and make them as small as possible? We know that these are issues, and we know that the system is not sustainable. I’m sure we can argue that, where we have a situation where one local authority had to be taken over because it couldn’t take any decisions, where we had six local authorities at one point in special measures for education, where we’ve had problems with social services—we’ve had particular problems in Pembrokeshire, with what was happening there with the chief executive—clearly, the system as it stands isn’t sustainable.How do we go forward? The map before the election is clearly gone. Let’s accept that, and I’ve said that before publicly and in this Chamber. I know that the Cabinet Secretary has spent the summer talking to local authorities, with a view to getting an agreed way forward. For some, it will mean voluntary mergers, and there’s interest there; for others, it will mean working regionally in terms of service delivery. So, the councils will still exist; they will be the point of entry, as it were, for the public, but services in the future would be delivered regionally. So, you would have one department. For example, there’s no reason why you can’t have one social services department for a number of authorities. Why is that a good thing? It creates the critical mass that a department needs, so that if people are on the sick, one or two of them, it doesn’t create a problem within the department. I’ve seen this happen in smaller authorities. We can do that by working with authorities and do it by consensus.I do think that town and community councils should be given more powers, and I think that’s something that local authorities, principal authorities, need to look at as well. They can’t all be given the same powers because there’s an enormous disparity in their sizes: some represent 100 or 200 people; others represent many thousands. But that is something that we want to look at.The current system doesn’t work, but we want to work with local government to make sure we get to a system where services can be delivered more robustly, more consistently, and, of course, better.

And most certainly finally, David Melding.

David Melding AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer, for your indulgence. Can I welcome the commitment to deliver an extra 20,000 affordable homes, First Minister? By my calculation—and I would like you to confirm this—that means that you are raising the target for the next five years for the housing market to produce not 8,000 homes a year, but now 12,000 homes a year. I do hope you can confirm that, but I do point out that the current level of house building is actually falling in Wales, and we’re unlikely to build even 8,000 homes this year.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, our target is 20,000. Some of that will be met, as I said, through Help to Buy. There will be different models that will be appropriate for different people—I think that’s true—and we need to be innovative in terms of seeing whether there are ways in which we can acquire existing houses—not compulsory, of course—in terms of making them available to the local market. These are all issues that will need to be examined.We know in some parts of rural Wales—Powys, for example, lost half of its public housing stock in the 1980s and 1990s, with enormous consequences. I’ve met people who can’t live in the villages that they’re from—they’re living in mobile homes as a result of it. Well, we can’t tolerate that; it’s a social justice issue, as far as the future is concerned.So, yes, we have the target of 20,000 homes. There will be a mixture of different ways as to how we reach that target, but we are determined to reach it.

I thank the First Minister.

4. 4. Statement: The Initial Teacher Education Change Programme—Progress and Update

The next item on our agenda is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the initial teacher education change programme. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Kirsty Williams.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Today, I would like to set out my priorities for the initial teacher education change programme in Wales.Every parent, Presiding Officer, should be confident that their child goes to a school that helps them grow as capable, healthy and well-rounded citizens. Teachers must be supported to be the best that they can be, raising the standard of the profession as a whole. Teachers share an individual, professional and national mission to help our children succeed.I believe Professor John Furlong’s report, ‘Teaching Tomorrow’s Teachers’, is critical in reforming our teacher education courses and developing the skills that teachers want and need. The teaching profession can only make its proper contribution to raising standards of education in our schools, as set out in Successful Futures, if our ITE offers our future teachers the skills, the knowledge and the appetite to lead the change required. ‘Teaching Tomorrow’s Teachers’ recommended the development of a very different approach for accrediting programmes of ITE in Wales, and it recommended the establishment of a teacher education accreditation board within the Education Workforce Council for Wales.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Kirsty Williams AC: On Monday, 26 September, I will be launching a public consultation on draft criteria for the accreditation of initial teacher education programmes in Wales, and proposals for giving the role of accrediting initial teacher education courses to the Education Workforce Council, through a committee it will be required to establish. This is a pivotal step, and I expect progress to be made at pace. I recognise the value and the difference that a truly collaborative ITE system can make when universities and schools work in genuine partnership.The best in Wales has a tradition of self-improvement through collaboration. It should not rest only with our schools and teachers to deepen and extend collaboration and mutual improvement—our universities must also deliver. This is the road to success. Not a single academic from any teacher education centre in Wales was returned for the most recent research excellence framework, and I want this to change.Revised accreditation criteria make clear our expectations, indeed our requirements, for fundamental change. One, an increased role for schools. Two, a clearer role for universities. Three, joint ownership of the ITE programme. Four, structured opportunities to link schools and university learning. And, finally, the centrality of research.Over the coming months, I will be visiting all universities in Wales, with either Professor Furlong, or my director for education. We want to explore what progress has been made, and how they are developing their vision for the future of their provision. I am resolute that change cannot and must not wait. Whilst new programmes of ITE will be accredited and marketed to prospective students from the summer of to prospective students from summer 2018, I expect to see substantial progress now. I want to see partnership arrangements between schools and universities maturing. I want to see universities in Wales working collaboratively with each other, as well as more widely. I also want to see a system that is self-improving, with the profession working for its own improvement and for that of others. Early in the new year we expect the partnerships to signal their intent to seek accreditation with revised programmes. All teachers need to develop the right teaching and assessment skills to enable them to use the new curriculum to support learning and teaching successfully. Combined with collaboration, innovation and leadership skills, we will develop reflective and highly effective teachers and leaders who have a commitment to their own professional growth and that of their colleagues.New professional teaching standards will set out rigorous expectations for entry to the profession so that we can attract the very best and we will also seek to inspire career-long development by describing what highly effective practice looks like. To support ITE reform, there has been a regular programme of engagement with the profession and we welcome the continued support of the universities to further develop the new professional teaching standards for the qualified teacher status.As we move forward with this exciting ITE change programme, it’s also important that we consider both alternative and traditional routes into teaching. There are so many individuals with the expertise and knowledge who we know will enrich our education system. I want to ensure that we have high-quality employment-based routes into teaching, involving effective professional support and development, that are flexible and responsive and are developed through working closely with the sector and education consortia. My central purpose of ITE reform is to improve the quality of provision delivered and better prepare our future teachers to develop skills to teach so that learners can learn. I want teaching to be a first-choice profession and I want to attract the best into teaching and make it a lifelong career. And this will only be a reality if our initial teacher education offer is the right one. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Thank you very much. Llyr Gruffydd.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement this afternoon. There is a great deal that I’d be happy to support. Of course, Plaid Cymru has welcomed the Furlong report and the recommendations therein, and the Plaid Cymru manifesto for the recent elections did outline some of the specific aspects of what we believe is needed to strengthen initial teacher education and continuous professional development. I assume that you are not veering from the views taken by the previous Government, which accepted all of the recommendations of the Furlong report.Your predecessor also said, of course, that we needed to move at a pace in terms of changes to initial teacher training, and the consultation that you referred to, which is to start next week, is one, as I understand it, the sector has been expecting since January. So, I don’t know if that actually reflects the progress at pace that you mentioned in your statement. And of course you said that‘na allwn, ac na chawn, aros am newid’.Can you, therefore, expand on your own operational timetable as Cabinet Secretary? You’ve mentioned 2018 as a key milestone, but I would like to hear what the milestones towards that are in terms of the consultation programme that you referred to. That would be most beneficial.Now, the proposed consultation makes reference to developing one specific aspect of the Education Workforce Council in Wales. Plaid Cymru, of course, has called for broader reform of that council in our manifesto so that it becomes a self-regulatory professional body that’s responsible for teaching standards and continuous professional development. You state that you would expect partnerships between schools and universities to mature. You expect early in the new year for them to state their intention to be accredited in new programmes, therefore could you tell us what you will do if that isn’t the case? I know that your predecessor had been a little impatient, perhaps, in terms of moving in that direction, and I would like to know what steps you would take as a Government if that weren’t to happen.We all, of course, want teaching to be a first-choice profession. I think everyone would agree on that. But I have to ask myself these days—who, in reality, is promoting teaching as a career? We know that the number of registered teachers is falling by some hundreds per annum. We are training around half of the teachers every year that we did, in comparison, in 2006. Would you agree with me that there’s a job of work to be done, which isn’t happening effectively enough now, in terms of promoting a career in teaching—not just in terms of numbers, of course, but in terms of attracting the highest quality candidates? That is certainly something that Furlong referred to, and the OECD, Estyn and others have expressed their concern on that issue.Plaid Cymru, of course, in our manifesto, did propose a 10 per cent premium on the salaries of those teachers who had reached a particular level of professional development. Certainly, that would contribute towards raising standards, in my view, but would also be a tool to attract and retain the highest quality candidates to enter teaching. Would you be willing to consider such a premium, because I do note that, in the programme for government published today, the Government does want to recognise, promote and encourage excellence in education? If you’re going to do that, perhaps you could do that through the use of such a premium. I’d be grateful if you could consider that.A reduction in bureaucracy, of course, is also very important in my view, because that’s one of the most negative aspects when it comes to trying to attract people to the teaching profession. With all that in mind, of course, in terms of attracting the highest quality candidates, perhaps you could tell us what role you see for Teach First and the graduate teacher programme, because they have a role in the current training landscape, and are funded through Government. Is that going to continue in the longer term? Where is the matching ambition, from the point of view of Government, in relation to teaching support staff, because we do have to strengthen the quality across the profession, in all aspects of education?You’ve also previously mentioned—and I will finish with this point—the development of a workforce and leadership strategy. You made a statement prior to the summer to that end. You said then that that would strengthen the focus on areas such as developing new professional learning standards and the move towards a Master’s teaching profession and so on. So, how will your announcement today and that strategy actually intertwine? I can hear some people now saying, perhaps, that you are asking questions of the sector in your statement here, and in the forthcoming consultation, without us actually seeing the vision and the broader strategy, which are yet to be outlined.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you very much, Llyr, for those points. I think what’s really important for education reform as we move forward is if we can continue to try and develop this consensus across the Chamber about a broad direction of travel. I think that’s what the education system needs more than anything at the moment. So, your ongoing commitment to the Furlong reforms is very much one that I welcome, and I appreciate that.I think it is only fair for you to raise the question around the pace of the introduction of some of these recommendations from Furlong. I think that’s a very fair point, which is why I stressed the point about pace in my statement this afternoon. I think we can move more quickly than we have, and we will need to do that.You asked for a timetable: the consultation, as I said, will start on Monday of next week, and it will run for seven weeks. It’s quite a short consultation period, because you will be aware that draft accreditation actually went out for pre-consultation consultation in the spring of this year. So, a lot of work has already been done. This is not going to be a surprise to people, because some of that pre-legislative scrutiny-type work was carried out in the summer. So, it’s a seven-week consultation. We expect the institutions to give an indication to us early in the new year of their intention to look for accreditation. Maybe there will be new people who will express an interest in looking for accreditation. So, we expect that in the new year. We want courses to be accredited and marketed in the summer of 2018, for initial adoption and training in 2019. So, that’s the timetable we’re working to, and it’s a really tight timetable, which is one of the reasons why we need the consultation to be done quickly this autumn term.You asked about what we can do to recruit and retain teachers. I think you’re right; I think we need to stress much more clearly the importance of teaching as a profession of first choice, and we want our best and our brightest graduates to come in to that profession. I think there are a number of reasons why, perhaps, that’s not happening at the moment and that’s why we need to engage in this reform of our initial teacher education because it’s not as good as it could be. It’s not providing people consistently with the skills they need for a successful move into the classroom. So, this is part of that programme to raise the status. I’ll be making further announcements this autumn on different ways in which we hope to be able to focus on good practice, to celebrate that in Welsh schools, to hold up those that are doing a great job and I hope to make announcements about that in the future. You will be aware that we are carrying out a bureaucracy project at the moment. We will be going out with the first-ever questionnaire of all teachers and teaching staff, so I can hear directly from the profession how they feel about their jobs and their status at the moment: whether they’re getting the support and the training that they need and whether there are things that they are being asked to do that don’t add value to the children in their classrooms. So, this is all part of a programme to try and ensure that we’re better at listening to teachers and responding to them, whilst at the same time expecting very high standards from the profession. That’s why we’re working on our professional standards that will go out to consultation in the new year for adoption shortly after that.You raised the issue of pay. Of course, I’m engaged in ongoing discussions with the Westminster Government on the devolution of pay and conditions for teachers because I do believe there is an opportunity, should those powers be devolved to Wales, that we can align pay and conditions with some of this agenda. Those discussions are ongoing because I do not want those powers devolved to us in a way that financially disadvantages the Welsh Government, which is already facing some significant financial challenges because of settlements from Westminster. You mentioned the issue of Teach First. As I said in my statement, I’m looking at a variety of ways in which we could have alternative entries into the profession. Earlier on, your leader said that we needed to evaluate, do what worked and ditch what doesn’t work. So, I am looking very carefully at all the current programmes we have and whether Welsh Government expenditure in those areas is resulting in high-quality teachers teaching in Wales. That’s what I’m engaged in at the moment, so we can make sure that the money that we are spending does result in high-quality teachers in front of our children in classrooms. I’ll be making announcements on how best we can take that forward shortly.On leadership, the leadership academy is on course for a launch later on in this year. I’m hoping to have provision up and running by this time next year, so, actually, people being able to access courses, support and development opportunities by this time next year.

Darren Millar AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement. You’ve responded to a number of questions that Llyr Gruffydd has already put down in terms of the timetable. But, can I just ask you this? One of the things that you mentioned in the statement was the importance of alternative routes into teaching. I’ve heard what you’ve just heard in response to Llyr Gruffydd about the opportunities that might be afforded to people who are out there, who are potential teachers, but can you tell us what you’re actually doing as a Government to explore opportunities that might be there with people who currently have careers in the public sector, private sector, business and industry who might make great teachers and could be a fantastic asset to the teaching profession here in Wales, in order to ensure that they can have access to come into the classroom if a career change might be appropriate for them? We know that there has been some pressure in some parts of Wales on having sufficient numbers of teachers, particularly in the STEM subjects and in terms of having teachers who can teach through the medium of Welsh. I wonder what specific action you are taking in order to try and recruit into those specific subjects.One of the things that you haven’t mentioned either are the opportunities that there may be for overseas-trained teachers to come into the Welsh system. At present, as I understand it, anybody in the European Economic Area who’s a qualified teacher in any of those countries that form part of the EEA can come here and make a relatively swift transition to qualified teacher status. But, of course, there are many other education systems, many of which are more similar perhaps to ours than those in some parts of the EEA—Australia, Canada and some of the other systems around the world with similar standards to ours—who do not automatically receive qualified teacher status, even though many of those teachers have had many years dedicated to the teaching profession. I wonder, Minister, what consideration you and the Welsh Government are giving to those particular individuals, in order to remove what may be unnecessary barriers to them being able to come and work here in Wales in our schools.I also note that there was no specific reference to continuing professional development for teachers. You’ve made some references to this in previous statements that you’ve made, particularly in terms of the passport scheme that is out there and that people are able to take advantage of. But, in terms of mandating training for our teachers to ensure that they do continue to develop their skills so that we’ve got a highly skilled workforce out there, I just wonder whether you could tell us what further progress is being made in terms of CPD for our teaching staff. Again, I heard your response in terms of the leadership academy. I’m pleased that things are progressing with that. We know that the quality of leadership in our schools very often determines how good a school is and how well a school and children in those schools, and, indeed, the staff in those schools, actually perform. Again, I just wonder if you could point to some practical examples of where you think that best practice that you’ve said you’ve identified actually is, and how you expect the consortia to assist in rolling out that best practice to the schools in the areas for which they are responsible. Thank you.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you, Darren, for your points. If I start with the issue of continuing professional development, obviously the focus of the statement today is on initial teacher education, but you’re absolutely right that we can never forget or take our focus off the need to support teachers who are already in the classroom, and you’ll be aware that the learning passports were launched last year. We’re looking to see whether they have been effective in this first year of operation and what we can learn from that. We’re working with new deal pioneer schools to look at what kind of continuing professional development makes the biggest difference. Speaking to teachers, as I have done since taking up this role, what seems to be the most effective way is teacher-to-teacher collaboration, especially if that can be fostered within a network of local schools. Some of the old barriers around professional distrust of not wanting to share weaknesses and strengths with one another are breaking down, I’m pleased to see, and teachers see the value in working together. Those networks are being developed and supported by the consortia. Of course, one of the key aspects of our new professional teaching standards will be a commitment to ongoing professional development from teachers themselves, with an emphasis on keeping up with current research such as the latest thinking on pedagogical issues. So, that’s very much part of our teaching standards approach. On the leadership college, we know that there are school leaders out there that have effected huge change in the performance of their schools. I was recently visiting a school where, quite controversially, a couple of years ago, a federation had been introduced. In the space of three years, the GCSE performance level 2 plus indicators had grown by over 25 per cent. In the space of three years, a successful school leader had been able to bring programmes and methods to that new school and, as a result, had seen a massive, massive change. Indeed, the people who were at the forefront of objecting to that governance change were now saying, ‘Look at us; look at how well our school has done this summer. And, actually, our grades are better than the private school just across the road.’ They were really, really proud of their achievement. So, it’s looking at those kinds of models, because we can drive achievement forward. What are we doing with regard to STEM and Welsh? Well, I’m sure you’re aware that there are already premiums available for graduates in STEM subjects or graduates who have skills in Welsh to go to train as teachers. We need to look to see whether we’re getting good value for money for those schemes and whether it has resulted in those teachers then ending up in our classrooms. We are evaluating that, but that’s one way of doing it. With regard to international teachers, I have to say, Darren, rather than considering what barriers we’ve put in the way for teachers qualifying to teach in Wales, one has to wonder what barriers the Home Office and the immigration service have put in Wales. We are hamstrung by the system that has been put in place by the Home Office and the immigration system in Westminster, which actually constrains the ability for people from overseas to come and work in this country, and not just in teaching. Last year, we had the debacle of nurses, where this country was crying out for nurses and we had to get a special dispensation just for the winter to allow nurses from overseas to come here. So, actually, the barriers are not here in Wales, the barriers are ones that have been created—[Interruption.]—have been created by Westminster to allowing people from overseas to come and live and work in this country.But, as I said, we do need to keep a balance between the continual professional development of teachers who are already in the system, but we have to get our initial teacher education offer right, because, if we don’t, we will not be able to see the improvements in school standards that you and I both want to see.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement. Teaching was a first-choice career for me and I spent 16 very rewarding years in the classroom. I know, from my own experience of working with ITE programmes as a student mentor myself, just how important they are in ensuring that teaching remains as a first-choice career, and also how beneficial it is for practicing teachers to have student teachers in the classroom with them, sharing new ideas.My question is this: how will the Welsh Government ensure that the new programme will provide trainee teachers with full and detailed training of additional learning needs? And, also, how will the new ALN Bill be built into this when it passes into law?

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you, Vikki, very much indeed. In some ways, whilst I’m very glad that you’re here, it’s sad that you’ve decided that politics would be your second career, rather than staying in the classroom. I think you’re right. The relationship that a student teacher has with their host school is absolutely crucial, and that’s why we do need to see a reform in how universities and schools work and the balance between the time student teachers spend in universities and how much time they spend actually at the chalkface, so to speak, working alongside qualified teachers in the classrooms. We need to have a much closer relationship between universities and the schools, which has been part of the problem in the past. We need a much closer relationship, which is very important.Forgive me, what was the final question? I’m sorry, I should’ve—

Vikki Howells AC: With regard to ALN.

Kirsty Williams AC: ALN—of course, ALN. You will be aware that the principle behind the ALN Bill is that all teaching professions should have an understanding and an ability to respond to low-impact, high-incidence rates of additional learning needs, and that has to be incorporated into the initial teacher training of our teachers. There will be the need, alongside the introduction of the legislation, for continual professional development programmes to support that. Because what we do know is that many people feel that there is scant regard paid to additional learning needs in existing ITE and that will be part of the accreditation programme: to look to see how individual courses are truly addressing that if they’re to be accredited by the new body.

Thank you. And, finally, Michelle Brown.

Michelle Brown AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. It’s encouraging to hear in your statement that you believe it’s important to look at alternative routes into teaching. Many gifted and talented people from many different walks of life who could inspire children and support their fellow teachers using their different work experience are discouraged from entering the profession by the requirement for formal qualification via a postgraduate certificate in education. I personally know of a number of people who would love to go into teaching, but they can’t afford to go through the PGCE—they’ve got bills, they’ve got mortgages to pay. I’m not saying that teachers shouldn’t be qualified, but there has to be an alternative route into teaching and into qualification. So, what alternative routes have you been looking at?

Kirsty Williams AC: Could I thank Michelle for her question? I think it’s absolutely clear that we do need to have people entering the profession with the right level of skills and qualifications. This is part of the previous Government’s drive to drive up standards and I’m committed to doing that. We do have a range of graduate programmes that currently exist. We have been piloting a Teach First approach in Wales. As I said earlier, those are currently being evaluated.With regard to barriers for people returning to university to acquire the qualifications that they need to go on to be teachers, then I’m hoping that, with the publication of the Diamond review, we might have something to say about a broader range of student support measures and, of course, I’ll be making a statement to the Chamber to that effect next week.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

5. 5. Statement: Update on Plans to Recruit and Train Additional GPs and Other Primary Care Professionals

We move on to the next item on our agenda, which is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport. It’s the update on plans to recruit and train additional GPs and other primary care professionals. Vaughan Gething.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Our Welsh Labour manifesto made a commitment to take action to attract more GPs to Wales and to encourage more doctors to train here. We also agreed with Plaid Cymru, as part of the compact to move Wales forward, to put in place plans to train additional GPs and other primary care professionals. Our vision for the Welsh NHS is an integrated health service with strengthened and modernised primary care at its heart. More routine healthcare will need to be provided in local communities, closer to people’s homes, preventing the need to travel or be admitted to hospital.The Welsh Government published our primary care plan in 2014. This sets out a clear approach to stabilising and securing future primary care services, based on the principles of prudent healthcare and a remodelled and diversified workforce. A primary care workforce plan was published in November 2015, and it includes actions to develop, diversify and invest in the primary care workforce, including, of course, GPs.We know that traditional models of general practice are under pressure as fewer doctors across the UK are choosing general practice as a career, and many of those who do are choosing to work as salaried or locum GPs. There are, of course, other challenges too: retaining older and more experienced GPs as part of a trend toward early retirement, increases in sessional-based work and more GPs choosing to work part time, and there is often a poor perception of general practice as a career choice. These are just some of the career challenges, all set against a backdrop of a difficult recruitment market right across the UK and internationally.Since the First Minister’s statement in May, we’ve developed plans for a major national and international recruitment campaign to market Wales and NHS Wales as an attractive place for doctors, including GPs, and their families, to train, work and live. Organisations across Wales, including health boards and trusts, will come together under the banner of NHS Wales to harness the best use of local activity, such as the excellent Rhondda Docs website—and I will say, if you haven’t had a look at it, it’s well worth having a look at what doctors are doing for themselves to market the place that they live and work in and are very proud to do so. All of this will take place using the Wales brand. The campaign will take a four-pronged approach. It will target medical students yet to choose a speciality to improve GP training place fill rates, trainees coming to the end of their training to encourage them to live and work in Wales, recently qualified GPs or those in the early stages of their career, and GPs nearing retirement or very recently retired to promote other available options to encourage them to stay or return to practice.I can confirm to the Chamber today that we will be launching the campaign on 20 October, leading straight into the British Medical Journal careers fair in London on 21 and 22 October. This is the first component of a longer term, sustained campaign to attract more doctors to Wales.In addition to the marketing elements of the campaign, we’ve been working with our partners, including the GPC and the Royal College of General Practitioners in Wales, to establish a clearer deal for GPs in the form of a ‘Wales offer’. This will communicate the existing benefits of being a GP in Wales and the actions being taken to address the concerns of those who are delivering services everyday so that Wales becomes a country of choice.To support GPs, and their families, who want to work in Wales, we are developing a single point of contact as part of the once-for-Wales remit of the NHS Wales shared services partnership. This will build on the single GP employer function currently provided by shared services and will offer an easily accessible source of information on medical careers and general practice. It will encourage and support those who respond to the campaign or express an interest in returning to work in the health profession. A network of recruitment champions will also be promoted. The champions will act as a contact for doctors from outside Wales who are considering relocating to Wales to discuss what working in Wales is really like.We’re also working with the Wales Deanery to develop a potential incentive scheme for a limited number of GP posts as part of a wider package to support areas of Wales facing particular challenges to fill existing GP trainee posts.Alongside the campaign we will, of course, continue to invest in primary care: £42.6 million has been made available for 2016-17 to health boards to support the delivery of their plans, and £10 million of this has been allocated for the 64 primary care clusters to invest in their local priorities and to enable innovation at a local level.We will continue to work with our partners to address workload—40 per cent of the points associated with the GP contract quality and outcomes framework requirements have been removed since 2015-16—and to develop solutions to issues such as professional indemnity.What I’ve described so far represents the initial phase of the campaign, focusing on doctors. The next phase will aim to address the challenges faced by other primary care professions, such as nurses, therapists, pharmacists, dentists, optometrists and paramedics, as the need for greater diversification of the primary care workforce continues. We’re working with our partners and primary care clusters to understand the range of skills needed in primary care to meet the current and predicted future demand. This analysis of workforce need will enable us to deliver targeted marketing campaigns and to develop comprehensive workforce training and development programmes at both health board and national level. To oversee the development, implementation and delivery of the activity that I have set out, a ministerial taskforce has been established. This brings together professional organisations, employers and Government to hold all those responsible for delivery to account. I chaired the first meeting of the taskforce in August, and we are due to meet again early next month.Our plans for primary care are clear. Delivery depends on getting the best from the full range of the primary care workforce, and we will continue to invest significantly in this over this Assembly term.

Thank you very much. Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you also to the Cabinet Secretary for the statement. This is an area that is a priority for us, and that’s why we were determined to see a commitment in this area in terms of the post-election agreement. However, we are facing a crisis and, in the face of a crisis of this kind, we need to act as a matter of urgency. There are fewer GPs per head in Wales than in the rest of the UK. Secondly, the calls and pressure on them is increasing. So, it’s entirely clear that the situation that we’re facing at present isn’t sustainable. So, I welcome several aspects of the statement, but there are several things that are insufficient, unclear or missing from the statement. So, I will ask four questions.The Cabinet Secretary has talked about an incentives system for some posts. I take it that that will be in areas where recruitment is difficult. Will the Cabinet Secretary confirm that that will include incentives for service over a longer period of time rather than just short-term incentives to fill posts in the short term? It’s very important that we do look at the longer term. There are some long-term elements that are perhaps not included here. There’s no mention here of recruitment of students from within Wales to study medicine in the first instance, nor is there mention made of recruitment of school pupils to want to pursue a career as a GP—which is something that I have an interest in—and to study medicine with that view from the very beginning of going into primary care work. I wonder whether the Cabinet Secretary is willing to look into work that can be done in that particular area.The third question from me: the First Minister said in an interview on the radio this morning, when referring to the number of GP practices that have been put back into the hands of health boards, that that wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. Does that mean that aiming towards having more GP practices managed directly by health boards is something that you would want to pursue, and even that that could become something that the Government would favour from now on?Finally—and this is entirely crucial—may I ask what targets the Cabinet Secretary is willing to set for the number of additional GPs that he wants to have, or the number of GPs that we will have in Wales by 2021? If you consider: technically, having one new part-time GP would mean expanding the provision of GPs. But, what is the target that the Cabinet Secretary has in mind? The Royal College of GPs, for example, has said that we need 400 new GPs in Wales. Is there any reason in the Cabinet Secretary’s mind as to why that figure wouldn’t be an appropriate target?

Vaughan Gething AC: I thank the Member for the series of questions and the broadly constructive manner in which he has engaged with the statement. I will turn first of all to your finishing point, about setting a target for the number of GPs. We have not set a target for the additional number of GPs, for the simple reason that what we are looking to do is maximise the number of GPs that we can train to meet fill rates. We don’t currently meet all of our fill rates, as is the case, sadly, with every part of the UK. This reinforces the fact that this is a UK and international challenge. I am interested in having more GPs where we don’t currently have enough. If we are going to remodel primary care and we are going to have a genuinely integrated workforce with GPs and other primary care professionals, I don’t think it’s helpful to then set a target for one part of the primary care workforce. We are really clear that we will need more GPs, but we will also need GPs to work differently, and that’s a point that I will come back to.Your point about incentives: we have been working with the Wales Deanery. Also, part of the point about the taskforce is to have discussions with partners about what incentives could and should look like. So, we are looking in particular at bonding schemes—we know that this is something that your party has been interested in as well—about potentially looking at bonding schemes to bring people into areas where there are challenges and, equally, to look at the potential for new GPs and how you can potentially help people with some of the costs of their training, if people agree to undertake a certain period of service here within NHS Wales. So, there’s something there about having something for something, and that is something that we are actively exploring with partners. I will, of course, keep not just him but the rest of the Chamber updated as we properly and actively consider that and bring it to a conclusion. I didn’t mention it in my statement, but I have mentioned before in this Chamber, the point about Wales-domiciled students. I met the deans of both Cardiff and Swansea medical schools, and I met them together, rather than having separate conversations where they could tell me what the other people weren’t doing. I had a joint conversation and it was actually very constructive. Again, that’s been something that I’ve been really struck by and gives me some cause for optimism: there hasn’t been points-scoring. There has been an acceptance of the fact that we need to do better. Part of that conversation was about how we encourage more Wales-domiciled students to undertake careers in medicine, and how we can make it available to a wider range of people as well. So, it’s about widening access as well as widening numbers too. That’s very definitely part of the conversation that we are having, because we want to see more Welsh students choose to undertake their GP training here. A range of Welsh students are ready to go to other parts of the UK and abroad to undertake their medical training. There’s a range of reasons why people do that. If you look at new undergraduates going to a career in medicine, they may well want to have a different experience, away from home. There’s no reason why there shouldn’t be excellent opportunities for them here in Wales. But, for example, a direct comparison is the nurse training workforce. The average age of nurse trainees at the start is 29. They are in a very different position to, if you like, your typical undergraduates, in terms of their roots in a particular area and responsibilities. So, we need to recognise the different groups of people that we are dealing with, and how we make that attractive and remove barriers to having more Welsh students studying medicine here in Wales. This also feeds into the point about work experience. That is something we are actively considering, not just within the GP and doctor part of the workforce here, but the wide range of careers that exist within the NHS, and making sure the NHS is more proactively engaging with the local population that it serves, works with and for, in highlighting the whole range of careers that are available in the national health service at a younger age as well. I expect to be able to tell you more about what the NHS is doing, but there’s a very clear expectation from Government to the NHS that there will be a much broader work experience offer, about making sure that people have the opportunity to come in at a younger age, as well as for people as they get older and are thinking about different options later in their academic life too. In fact, in terms of experience and making opportunities in medicine, I haven’t yet watched it, but the S4C series has just started, looking at doctor training. Actually, Cardiff University and the medical school were both really positive about the way that that was going to present the opportunity to be a doctor, what it really means and actually what it can give to someone—not just the financial returns, but a really rewarding career within all parts of medicine, including primary care as well.Now, if I can come back to your final point there about where you start and about the shape of primary care, well, you said that where we are isn’t sustainable. The current way of working isn't sustainable, and so, large parts of healthcare will need to look different in five years’ time—we should want them to. The point is that we should plan for them to look different in a way that best serves the needs of our population. The challenge here is how we ensure that change isn’t the inevitable that happens to us—that we’re taking control and ownership of it. And that’s what I’m looking to do with our partners. I have to say that, so far, in the engagement this term, there’s been a positive approach with other parties in this Chamber and we’re all looking in the same direction at this point in time. Now, that will mean, in primary care, though, we expect there will be a smaller number of practices. We are likely to have fewer of them. We’re likely to see more amalgamations. We're likely to see more federations as well. There's a federation starting in Bridgend, which I think is a positive example. That could mean that, over a broader area, you're going to provide different services for the population, as well as having more robust services. So, I have no particular plan to bring in to local health board control a certain number of practices; our aim is to ensure we have a genuinely sustainable primary care workforce on a footprint that makes sense and is generally sustainable, and that will mean change. And given the number of single and double-handed practices we have in Wales, there is understandably going to be some change, and that is uncertain both for individuals who work for those practices and the local population. Our challenge is how we approach that in a genuinely mature and constructive manner without trying to exploit fear and opportunities for immediate point scoring, but actually saying, ‘How do we make sure that, in five years' time, primary care is in a better place, more sustainable, and people have real confidence about the quality of services that they receive and take part in’.

Angela Burns AC: Well, Cabinet Secretary, I am pleased that the Welsh Conservative debate of last week has had such a galvanising effect on you, because this statement does actually pretty much cover most of the requirements that we put forward, or suggestions, for what we might do to improve GP recruitment in Wales. I do, however, have a couple of questions to ask you.Let me make it clear that I really welcome this, but I want to ask: did you do a lessons-learned exercise from the previous GP recruitment programme? I think it was in 2012 or 2014; I can't remember, to be honest, which of those two years it was, but I know that it didn't have a great take-up, because I think that would be really useful to make sure that we've covered all bases. And yet, as you say, you're going to target medical students yet to choose a speciality. Will this also involve you working with the deanery to try to ensure that GP practice is part of the rotation of a junior doctor? Because I do think that this is absolutely critical in getting young doctors interested in, and involved in, the complexities of general practice and realising it can be a really fulfilling way forward.I'm very pleased to see that, you know, you've taken on board the fact that we've got to attract the doctors and their families, but how would that translate in real terms? What do you think we might be able to do, or your Government might be able to do, to ensure that a doctor's partner would be able to also find work at the kind of professions that they might want to work in here in Wales, particularly when we move further away from the capitals of, you know, Swansea, Cardiff and, in fact, north Wales and into the more rural areas? It's tougher to get jobs full stop, let alone the kind of jobs that a partner may want to go for.Have you addressed in this, in your recruitment programme, the concerns over buying into difficult or struggling practices? I've really taken on board your point about the professional indemnity, and you talk about addressing the concerns of those delivering services every day, so that Wales becomes a country of choice. Well, of course, we need to also look at the costs of buying into a practice and the standard of the infrastructure that people might be buying into. So, will you be looking at that?Are you going to be addressing the take-home pay differential between doctors in Wales and doctors in England? I mean, England has typically—. Their take-home pay is about 10 per cent higher, and I wonder if that has any factor, and I wonder if you're going to have a look at that.I wonder who is going to be paying for this recruitment programme. Could you give us some indication? Have you put aside funds for it, because, given the current combined deficit of all the local health boards is some £78 million, I wondered if they are funding the recruitment programme in their areas, or if this is something that Welsh Government intends to fund, or are you going to be then defraying the costs back out again?I was very interested to see your comment about your working with the Wales Deanery to develop a potential incentive scheme as part of a wider package to support areas of Wales that face particular challenges to fulfil GPs. Now, a lot of that has got to be rural areas, and I just wonder if you could expand on that a little bit more because, as you know, particularly in west Wales, we are suffering from a chronic shortage of GPs, and I’d just be interested to understand that.Then, finally, I was delighted to see that you picked up that the next phase will address the challenges faced by other primary care professions. I think I’ve said this now about three times, and I’m going to say it for a fourth: 30 per cent of nurses in general practice in Hywel Dda alone intend to leave within the next five years, so I think we’ve got quite a big issue coming downstream, and I wonder whether you can just give us an indication of when that next phase might start, because we need to try and put, obviously, people in place or in training before we actually get to the point where we are in trouble.I’m sorry, Presiding Officer—there is actually one more question, which is: do you anticipate raising or increasing within a short time period, and seeking to raise, the number of training places available in Wales? I think you alluded to it when you answered Rhun, but I would be really interested in knowing whether that is one of your ambitions, and if so, how long might it take to deliver that?

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you again for the series of questions, and again the constructive engagement, both before today and during the day as well. I’m happy to say that the areas that we are looking to deal with today were in our minds before the Welsh Conservatives laid their debate plan. It’s a funny coincidence, isn’t it? But there we are.In terms of the points you make about the previous campaign, let’s start with that. There have been lessons learned, both about the time that it took and about the messaging and how focused it was as well. So, certainly there’s that consistency to learn. There’s also something about—and it’s a point that you’ve made that’s been actively in our mind, and has been reinforced by partners as well—looking at the whole person and the whole country. So you look at the whole person as a GP; what else do they want to do? Some parts of Wales have been very good at doing this, and to be fair, in both north-west Wales and south-west Wales they’ve been much better at advertising everything that someone can get from living and working in that part of the world. So, there are some people that really would like the lifestyle that is on offer there. And for other people, it isn’t quite the same, but we’re getting a certain group of people who actually want to buy in to living somewhere as well, and that’s really valuable.That person, of course—sometimes they do come with dependents, and other times they don’t. That’s part of the individualised point about not just the Wales offer, but about the recruitment champions: to understand what does this look like if you want to relocate to Wales, and what is important to you? It’s not just about the individual location, but of course, within a broader travel-to-work area. We know that lots of people travel a decent distance into work every day, and health professionals are no different in that sense. So, it is about understanding what will make a difference for that individual person, for the family context that they want to work in, and what is important to them as well. Of course, we are funding the national campaign on recruitment, and I’m looking forward to taking part in that at various points in time, but in particular seeing what the response is from our partners and the contact they will have with their members, and then ultimately seeing what that looks like in terms of outcomes for people wanting to relocate and to live and work here in Wales.So, we haven’t had any particular input that take-home pay is an issue. There is something there about how to use incentives smartly, though. That’s why bonding is an issue, and in those areas where there is a real evidence base it will make a difference. Some of those areas, I imagine, would be rural parts of the country, but there other parts of Wales that aren’t rural where there are still particular challenges. So we need to think about how smartly we potentially use those incentives.Now, on training numbers, a point you made, I want to be clear that I’m not going to set an increased target for training numbers. We need to fill the current places that we have. We have actually got a slightly better fill rate than other parts of the UK—we’re just over three quarters—but the challenge is that we’re still not filling our numbers. When we’re getting much nearer to that, I’m happy to look again at both what we need within our workforce, the regional setting that we have to work within, and to see whether it is then sensible to look at expanding that. But let’s get right what we want to do now: that is, fill the places we have and make sure we have a good quality of experience as well, because the recent survey on the experience of training, again shows that doctors themselves, in training, say that Wales is the best part of the UK for the very best training experience. That’s really important as well, so there are lots of things for us to positively sell.One of the challenges that we do recognise is the primary care estate—not just the idea that if you’re the last man or woman standing in a practice, and you’ve got all of the liabilities, with an old building that is no longer fit for purpose, that can be a real burden—that can be a disincentive for people to buy into a practice. That’s something about the model as well. It’s also something about—and this is a challenge about how we use public resource in terms of remodelling and reshaping primary care, and if you look at almost all the examples of new primary care buildings that the Welsh Government and health boards have invested in, then it is a different model that we’re investing in, and it provides not just the different sort of quality and experience for the patient and the staff who work there, but almost always it provides a new experience, and not just a new experience but new services. And that’s really important, too, so we’re trying to make sure that the design that we want for primary care, in a more joined-up, integrated way, is actually what we’re then investing in—we’re investing in a part of the new primary care estate. So, again, that’s part of being smart for the future, making sure the two things are joined up.In terms of the point about exposure to primary care, it’s regularly raised with us by partners. There’s some interesting work in Cardiff going on with the C21 programme, making sure that primary care exposure is definitely part of that—that it’s deliberate rather than accidental—and that also goes into our work with other professions as well. So, we’re looking at career frameworks, and I’ll have more to say on allied healthcare professionals this autumn as well. We’re looking at expanding training numbers for a range of different professions as well—a decision made by the previous Minister—and so we’re actually really serious about growing the workforce in areas where we need to. We recognise that’s an important part of what we’re doing, and it’s also about the model changing too—so not just the numbers, but how people work together, so not just community pharmacy, but all the different parts, the therapists and the scientists as well and what they can do, working alongside GPs. There is a changing attitude and a willingness from the GP community to engage with all of those people in really actively reshaping primary care, and I think clusters are going to be an important part of that, too.

Caroline Jones AC: Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I am pleased that the Welsh Government accept that there is a crisis in the primary care field. We wish you every success with this campaign, because Wales badly needs more GPs, otherwise we have a massive problem. Unfortunately, your proposals will do little to help us in the here-and-now situation. With the NHS preparing for the annual winter pressures, we are already seeing more burdens placed on primary care. The Royal College of General Practitioners tell us that some of the health boards’ winter pressure plans call for greater work throughout—that primary care services in some areas are already at, or over capacity. So these plans are not viable at present. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that winter planning does not place additional burdens on primary care? Until we have sufficient numbers of GPs to reduce the workload on our existing primary care staff, we must do more to reduce the burden on general practice. Cabinet Secretary, what consideration has the Welsh Government given to providing additional funding to GP practices to employ clinical staff in order to reduce the GP workload? We welcome the news that the next phase of the campaign will look at the challenges faced by other primary care professions. However, Cabinet Secretary, much more needs to be done to encourage and train staff, such as paramedics, physiotherapists and occupational health nurses, to work in primary care instead of their traditional role in secondary care. Will the Welsh Government undertake the work to ensure that primary care is seen as a viable career option to those considering a career in secondary care? The Royal College of GPs tell us that currently most GPs and their staff are currently overstretched. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure GPs and their staff, who are suffering from stress due to excessive workloads, are fully supported and have access to occupational health services themselves? And, finally, Cabinet Secretary, it is widely acknowledged that primary care is vastly underfunded, and while we welcome the funding you have announced today, the Royal College of GPs tell us that the clusters are not working in some areas, with money slow to filter through. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that the funding announced today actually makes it to the front line? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr.

Vaughan Gething AC: I thank the UKIP’s spokesperson for her series of comments and questions. I’ll just start at the beginning with the unfortunate but necessary.When you say that the—. The Government doesn’t accept that there is a crisis, and I think the language really matters. We accept there’s a very real challenge, and it’s particular in different parts of Wales, and there’s a challenge right across the UK and internationally, but it’s not something that is about to imminently fall over within the next day. So, I’m really clear about the language. That doesn’t mean that staff aren’t under pressure; it doesn’t mean there aren’t services under pressure; it doesn’t mean that change is going to be avoided or is going to be easy. But when we look at this—and I’ll deal with the point you made earlier about how we’re supporting staff—we’ve actually worked with primary care to make sure that we’ve got better access to occupational health support for staff within those settings. So, it’s a positive move we’ve already made forward. That’s part of what we’re trying to do, working alongside the wider primary care profession. I’ll deal with your winter pressure comments and questions as well. Part of the challenge about every winter is that we know that we will face, inevitably, more people coming into hospital who are generally going to be older and sicker; as our population ages, that’s a profile we’ll have. Interestingly, the numbers are smaller in winter, but the need is greater. So, that’s why we have our different challenges. I regularly get told by some people that there’s no such thing as winter pressure any more, the pressure is year-round, but we know very well the profile of people who need access to healthcare support does change, and it is more acute when it comes to winter. Part of the solution isn’t just about trying to increase capacity within secondary care, it is about how we work to avoid people being admitted in the first place, to avoid them going into a hospital. If your experience is that you go into an accident and emergency department and you don’t get admitted, if you could have been cared for in your own home and could have been spared that experience, that’s eminently preferable.So, it’s also then about how we work with different partners, not just to keep people in their own homes, but also to get people back to their own homes as soon as possible. So, it’s about admissions avoidance, and also reducing delayed transfers of care. And there should be reason for some optimism, because we have a range of different examples across Wales of where that admissions avoidance works and works well, and it’s almost always because GPs and the wider primary care workforce are engaged with social care and housing partners to understand who is at greatest risk of potentially needing admission to hospital, and then what you do to make sure that person is properly supported to make sure either that they don’t need to go in or that they can be repatriated to their own home, with appropriate support, if they do need an admission and hospital-based care. Our challenge, as ever, is to learn across the whole system, doing that more consistently and at pace across the system. So, I won’t pretend that winter is going to be a breeze. It would be a foolish Minister in any Government of any political shade that said that nothing will go wrong in winter. There are bound to be pressures and challenges, and the biggest challenge won’t be for me, it’ll be for staff within the service in trying to deliver a high quality of care whilst demand is rising. But, like I said, I think the approach we have here, which we should be really proud of, is the ambition to have more care closer to home and actually properly recognise the whole-system approach, the whole of healthcare, with social care and with partners in housing in particular. Finally, I’ll deal with your point about primary care clusters and about money going to primary care to help support some of our ambitions about the money that people can spend themselves. I indicated in the statement, and I’ve said before in this Chamber, that the £10 million for clusters has been allocated for them to spend. They have to work alongside their local health boards, but it is fundamentally money that they have within their own control. So, that is new money that’s getting to the front line, and equally it’s being spent on delivering more front-line staff. Lots of clusters have decided to employ clinical pharmacists. GPs recognise that has real benefit. So, there are more staff that are being introduced, but there’s a range of different professions that each cluster will choose to employ, and how they choose to deploy their money with their partners. The reason why they exist is to make sure that people can manage and understand their local healthcare populations, to manage that healthcare and to deliver the very best for that population. So, I would not expect to see the money spent in exactly the same way in every single cluster, but it has got to be about each of those primary care clusters having the ability to decide what to do, to decide how the health gain will be met, and actually to be able to get on and spend their money. That’s the point that I made when I met NHS vice-chairs this week: we need to see the money getting through to the front line, and I do not want to be in a position where clusters complain to me they had significant plans to make real differences but they were not able to get the money through local health boards. After the first year, I think there were complaints, but I don’t expect to see those problems arise within this year at all.

Julie Morgan AC: I welcome the points made in the statement by the Cabinet Secretary, and I think they will certainly help the situation. During the recess, I visited North Cardiff Medical Centre, and was very impressed with the efforts that they were making there to try to treat the whole patient to try to avoid unnecessary medical treatment and try to avoid admission to hospital. I was also very impressed by their efforts to work very closely with other medical professionals and to work in a way that is reaching out to the community. I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary would agree that all these things are essential in a successful GP practice. One of the points they did bring up with me, which I also raised last week, was the concern they have about the huge growth of population that is likely in Cardiff. I know that there are difficulties in providing GPs in rural areas, for example, and possibly, perhaps, in Cardiff now, but they are very worried about what will happen in the future. So, I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary had any views on that. The second point—there’s been quite a lot of discussion about training and medical training here today. Would he agree that it’s essential that the medical curriculum does address hands-on training and makes the students aware of the actual jobs that they will do when they do actually enter employment? I know that the new curriculum at Cardiff medical school does offer now a lot more hands-on experience for the students and they believe that the breadth of experience that’s being offered to them in that training has resulted, this year, in 55 per cent who have chosen to stay in Wales for their first foundation post, which they see as an achievement. Certainly, some of those people will end up as being GPs. So, I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary would agree that the content is vital in making the students aware of what can be achieved by being a GP. I think in the Cabinet Secretary’s statement or in his response to questions he did say that the job is perhaps not seen as an attractive job and I think that it’s really important that as much is done as possible to show the opportunities that can be there through general practice. I was very interested in the North Cardiff Medical Centre telling me about a visit that they’d made, along with other officials—I think possibly the Welsh Government officials went too—to Bromley by Bow Centre in east London, which is quite a famous centre, where the GP practice is situated in a community hub where there’s a community café, and where there are lots of health and well-being issues. It’s there to address the needs of the whole community and I think that is the point that the Cabinet Secretary has been making in his responses today. So, would he agree that that sort of development would help to make potential GPs see the value of being a GP and being able to work in the holistic way that some practices are trying to do?

Vaughan Gething AC: I thank Julie Morgan for the series of questions and the examples she gives from her own constituency of Cardiff North. I’ll start with the point you make about the position that Cardiff finds itself in, which is different to lots of other parts of Wales. It is an expanding city: that is a positive thing but that does bring different challenges. It’s why I’m careful, when other Members urge me to accept that the biggest challenge is always in providing rural healthcare, that we say that we have to accept that the context in which healthcare is provided differs and there are particular circumstances—I always get different versions of ‘treat me fairly’, whether it’s rural representatives saying there are different challenges in rural parts of Wales, or the city of Cardiff having particular challenges, or that there are Valleys communities that have particular challenges as well. It’s about how we appropriately and properly address those, and we have a fair way of actually understating how extra funding is allocated, but also actually about how we attract people into different parts of our country to work, because some parts of Cardiff are more attractive to work in than others as well. So, within the city there are different challenges as well as those challenges outside. But it is a point well made that we do need to consider those in our particular policy prescriptions and responses. I’m really pleased to hear her refer to North Cardiff seeing, if you like, the whole patient in terms of their social setting and their family setting and to understand what matters to them and what’s important to them, because people with similar conditions may want different responses. There are different levels of risk people are prepared to take in what they do and don’t want to do and how they’re actually able to cope and manage. So, it’s really encouraging to hear that conversation taking place. We need to see more of that and actually the patient being properly engaged in having a conversation with the medical professional about what matters to them, what they actually want to achieve and how the healthcare choices for treatment are then made, as well as prevention.In terms of those other issues that may have an impact on someone’s health, we know that a range of GPs are being more proactive at understanding where and how to refer people to other sources of help and advice. Other fields of their lives may be affecting them and they may actually present at a GP practice with a healthcare need when actually it’s a different sort of issue that needs to be addressed and resolved—benefits issues, for example, are ones where we know that there is a range of GP practices involved. I met one just a short distance away from here that has a very proactive arrangement with Citizens Advice, for example. That proper referral process has been really helpful to them in knowing where and how to send people. That also leads into your point about the primary care estate and how we build it. It’s not just the Bromley by Bow Centre, there is a range of other examples of where how you design and deliver a GP practice can help to set the context in which that healthcare is delivered, and how you properly link in other parts of not just the life of the patient, but also the practice and how it sees its actual mission in providing healthcare to its community. That again goes back to your final point about the experience within training and what happens when people are studying medicine. For example, the Cardiff course is different, it’s an undergraduate one, to the graduate entry in Swansea, but I’m encouraged by the initial feedback from both Cardiff and Swansea regarding the numbers of people who train there who choose to make their career in Wales afterwards as well. They both have good records of not just bringing people to study medicine here in Wales, but of keeping them here as well. What we want to try and learn and understand, in looking at medical education and training in the future, is what more we can do to make sure that the experience is a rewarding one, that primary care is properly held up as a genuinely rewarding career and that the experience helps you to be a fully formed professional, not just to understand, if you like, the technical sides of medicine, but that point about seeing the whole patient and understanding how you help them to make choices for themselves to have a genuinely rewarding experience.

Suzy Davies AC: I’ll be as quick as I can on this. We hear, albeit anecdotally, that one of the deterrents to recruitment and training in Wales is this rather unfortunate myth that you have to be able to speak Welsh to work in the Welsh NHS. But it’s a Government priority—and it’s one that I agree with—that key individuals within professional primary care need to be able to speak Welsh in order to offer a service to those that they serve. Can you tell me how recruitment and training for those, regardless of where in the world they come from, will ensure sufficient Welsh language speaking skills amongst key individuals so that they can at least communicate with young children, individuals with learning difficulties and those with dementia? I appreciate that you might have wider ambitions for the skills base as a whole, but for those three individual groups of people, what focus are you putting on those within your training?

Vaughan Gething AC: It’s a fair point about how we deal with Welsh as part of the importance of communication to deliver effective health and care. We know that for a range of people who have dementia, they often default to their first language and so it becomes more difficult to understand and communicate in other languages that they may have learned in life. So, there is a real imperative about the quality of healthcare—about how we have the healthcare team being able to deliver that. Some of that will be about how we help people to give them opportunities to learn Welsh once they come here, but it will also be about the wider team as well, because it doesn’t have to be the GPs themselves necessarily who have the Welsh language skills and ability. It’s got to be about the way that whole team works together where it is a genuine need, and to see it in that context. That then is something about how we recruit all of our professionals here in Wales and what that means in those different roles within that primary care team, not just in nursing but all the therapists as well, because sometimes when you understand what people want it’s in a slightly different context to when we actually then need the help, support and advice, ultimately, as well. So, it’s a genuinely joined-up approach; it recognises the language as a genuine issue, but at the same time it has to see it within that wider team context in which we want to provide excellence in care. Our first priority is to understand what we can do to attract more people to stay in Wales and to come to Wales to train, to work and to live. This is about how we enable people to do that, rather than creating a barrier that need not be there.

Mark Isherwood AC: Of course, other primary care professionals that are included in your statement include specialist nurses working in the community and the home. In November 2011, I hosted an event in the Assembly on specialist nurses. At that time, for example, there was only one multiple sclerosis specialist nurse in Wales. I noted that we couldn’t afford to make knee-jerk reactions and cuts because specialist nurses ultimately save money and provide an important service. I talked about how much money was being saved across Wales by epilepsy, Parkinson’s, MS and other specialist nurses, and how they cut down admissions to hospital. The Royal College of Physicians and the Association of British Neurologists recommend three clinical nurse specialists per 0.5 million population for MS, for example. The Steers report recommended one per 300 patients, but we still only have, for example, one MS nurse in north Wales for a population of patients of 1,100. There has been recruitment of other multidisciplinary team members, but other health boards providing better clinical nurse specialist and patient ratios also employ staff in these positions. How, therefore, will you address a situation in which, for example, the recommended level by Steers in Cardiff and the Vale is 2.3, and by the RCP and the ABN it’s 2.9, but they actually achieve 3.5, whereas north Wales has recommended levels of 3.7 or 4.2, but they still only have one? So, how can you tackle this on an all-Wales basis to fill in those gaps, recognising—and I’m sure you’ll agree—that it doesn’t always have to be a specialist nurse relevant to an individual condition; that it can be generic neurological nurses, but how to tackle the gaps that continue?

Vaughan Gething AC: Well, it neatly reinforces the fact that we face workforce challenges in a variety of different areas within healthcare professions. And there’s been no attempt to hide from that. In fact, we want to positively be proactive and go out and say, ‘Who do we need within the primary care team?’ That’s why I talk about other professionals. It’s why I’m really pleased to hear that we’re not just having this conversation with the currency of doctors being the only currency that matters within the health service. And, in the way that we then plan our workforce and what we need within the workforce, we need to take account of that full range of professionals. I expect, though, that you’ll see that, in some of these, the challenges that we face are not localised; they’re part of a national picture. And, this is also why primary care clusters actually being able to understand how they manage the healthcare needs of their local population is really important. The money they’ve been given to spend as they choose is actually about understanding how they will, with their particular knowledge of the people they serve, actually address some of the different challenges and gaps they face.But, in every single sphere of workforce planning, at health board level and at national level, there will be some challenges that will be more difficult than others, and I’d be more than happy to have a more detailed conversation with him about where we are on this particular field of specialist nurses, because I do recognise that he does have a particular interest.

Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary.

6. 6. Statement: Update on Active Travel

We move on to the next item, which is the statement by the Minister for Social Services and Public Health on active travel. I call on the Minister to make the statement. Rebecca Evans.

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. Improving the well-being of people in Wales and enabling them to be more active is a key manifesto commitment for us. Walking and cycling in particular offer a multitude of benefits to individuals, to society and to the planet. The Welsh Government, with the support of the previous Assembly, has put in place a new framework that will ensure that we can realise these benefits. We start from a low base. Last year, just 6 per cent of adults in Wales made an active journey by bike and 63 per cent made a trip on foot once a week or more, meaning that one third of adults in Wales made no walking or cycling trips in an average week. Similarly, only 49 per cent of primary school aged children typically walk to school and only 2 per cent cycle, with even lower figures for secondary school children. The most recent figures estimate that the cost of physical inactivity to the NHS in Wales is £51 million a year. We want to help people across Wales increase their physical activity by providing the means to make walking and cycling short distances the norm. This will help improve our nation’s physical and mental health, save people and businesses money, improve our air quality, reduce congestion and carbon emissions, and increase our support for local shops and businesses.A key element in this is our landmark legislation, the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, which was commenced nearly two years ago. Since then, we have made significant progress in changing the way that we treat walking and cycling in Wales. We now have our national design standards, which set out clearly what we expect from walking and cycling infrastructure. We expect the infrastructure to be safe and comfortable to use, and to really meet the needs of users. These standards will help to transform routes across Wales over the coming years. We have conducted a comprehensive survey of existing walking and cycling infrastructure in Wales, which was completed in spring 2015. On this basis, local authorities were able to audit and identify the existing routes in their towns, which they consulted on and submitted to us on their existing routes maps this year. Local authorities have now begun work on the next stage, where we look at moving from looking at what we have already got, to what we want for the future. This will result in the submission of the first set of integrated network maps for 142 places in Wales next September. It is critical that the planning of these networks builds on engagement with as many current and potential users as possible to ensure that their views and knowledge help effectively connect the origin and destination points that people need to travel between.Encouraging people to walk and cycle for everyday journeys requires more than good infrastructure, important though this is. We need to change people’s attitudes to walking and cycling, and support the emergence of a new active travel culture in Wales. Our active travel action plan, which was published in February this year, sets out the actions that Government is taking to support this change. It complements the wider work on increasing levels of physical activity in Wales under ‘Getting Wales Moving’, which will inform our healthy and active strategy, to be published later this year.The action plan includes our high-profile Active Journeys programme, which supports promotion and engagement of active travel in many schools across Wales. In its first year, the new programme has benefited 230 schools in total, ranging from more intensive work with schools, including work to seek pupil involvement with Safe Routes in Communities schemes, through to simply providing advice and information. The work programme included, for the first time, secondary schools. Forty-five secondary schools benefited, most of which held workshops to get students’ input into the integrated network mapping process.We are also supporting the Cymru Travel Challenge, which targets workplaces across Wales. Over three challenges, we aim to motivate over 4,500 employees across Wales to increase the frequency of active travel and the use of public transport for everyday journeys, and replace single-occupancy car journeys. Challenge 1 ran in May and saw over 700 participants logging 6,500 journeys and replacing 32 per cent of car journeys with walking and cycling. Challenge 2 commences on 10 October.Increasing levels of active travel in Wales is something that requires action from many parties, within Government and outside it. Local authorities have a key role to play, and I am very grateful for the professionalism and the enthusiasm that many have shown in embracing the challenges of implementing this new legislation. I am working closely with the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, and we are agreed on the vital importance of ensuring active travel is embedded in the planning of major transport infrastructure projects, such as the metro projects in north and south Wales, to ensure that our transport network is genuinely integrated, efficient and high quality. I am also working with my other Government colleagues to ensure the delivery of the Welsh Government’s actions and duties, and look forward to working with the active travel board, which I will meet at their next meeting on 5 October. Diolch yn fawr.

Dai Lloyd AC: May I thank the Minister for her statement? May I welcome the details that have been provided and this update on active travel? Of course, we had a brief discussion on this issue of physical fitness in the health committee last week and the Minister will recall that we mentioned the importance of physical fitness and the importance of keeping fit for us all, whatever our age, but particularly as we influence our children, because it does establish a pattern of behaviour for life. Fitness and keep fit—. There are certain studies, as I mentioned last week, that demonstrate a reduction of 30 per cent in blood sugar levels if you are fit, as compared to those who are unfit, a reduction of 30 per cent in blood pressure, and a reduction of 30 per cent in cholesterol levels, and in weight. What is noted there, of course, is that if fitness were a tablet or a drug with that significant reduction of 30 per cent in those elements, everyone would be screaming for NICE to allow us doctors to prescribe it, post haste. That’s why fitness deserves far more attention that it’s currently given. It’s far more effective than most of the drugs available to us in dealing with these issues that I’ve just mentioned. But if I can return to the statement, that’s why I was a little surprised at your third paragraph, when you mentioned that the latest figures on the cost of not keeping fit to the health service in Wales was £51 million each year. I would have thought, given all those costs that we face in dealing with obesity, that the saving in financial terms would be far more than £51 million per annum. That appears to be a very low figure to me, I have to say, in terms of tackling this situation.Specifically, on your commitment under the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, can I ask how active travel is considered in the discussions that will take place on the rail franchise? And, specifically, when you mention that more children should be walking or cycling to school, of course, safety issues are given as one reason why people don’t actually choose to walk or cycle to school. So how are you actually getting to grips with parents’ doubts over safety as part of these active travel issues?Finally, of course, particularly when you mention a workforce that, instead of travelling to work in their cars, is now going to do so either by cycling, running or walking, there are implications in terms of providing facilities to those people, such as toilets, showers and bike sheds to actually go hand in hand with those active travel routes. How are negotiations proceeding to ensure that the facilities are in place to meet the aspirations? Having said all of that, may I welcome the direction of travel, as they would say. Thank you.

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank you very much for those questions and also thank you for the very constructive session that we had with committee in which we explored in quite some detail the aspects of physical activity to which you referred. You asked about the statistics—the figure of £51 million as a cost to the NHS every year in terms of the lack of physical activity. That figure was given to us by Public Health Wales. They’ve done a scoping exercise, looking at the economic cost of various things such as domestic violence, mental health, physical inactivity, smoking and many other aspects as well in a new document called ‘Making a Difference’. It’s a shorter document, but underpinned by a robust evidence base, looking at these various aspects. Although this just specifically relates to the physical inactivity’s cost to the NHS, obviously there is a much wider cost in terms of costs to the economy, for example, costs to people’s own quality of life and so on, as well. So, this was just looking at one of those aspects.You talked about the importance of getting children engaged with active travel at a very, very early stage in their lives, and we’re completely on the same page there. I think our eco-schools programme has a particular role to play in that. Over 860 schools in Wales have already achieved the international Green Flag award for the work that they’ve been doing on eco-schools and, as part of that, they’ve been looking at things—there are walk-to-school days, for example, and walking-bus programmes. Schools have junior road safety officers, and in some of those schools they’ll be making bespoke parking tickets to put on the cars of parents who have perhaps parked insensitively and inappropriately on pavements and so on outside schools. I think that having a message perhaps from a child that is handwritten is much more powerful than politicians and others telling parents where they should and shouldn’t park and so on. I think children have a really important role to play in this particular agenda.We’re trying to make sure that children are also safe on the roads from the youngest age as well, which is why, through the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure’s department, we’re identifying and creating safe routes to schools for walking and cycling, and that’s very central to the active travel Act. Nearly £800,000 is also paid to local authorities for child pedestrian training, and 17,000 primary school children have benefited from that. That’s about helping children have confidence to walk to school, but also making them understand what they need to do to keep themselves safe whilst doing so. Over £0.5 million is also paid to local authorities for national standard cycle training, which benefits 15,000 primary school pupils a year as well. Cardiff is receiving a grant at the moment to pilot some new approaches to refresher training for children as well, because we can teach this at a certain point, but then we want to see whether there is a benefit actually to offering refresher training and perhaps more detailed training that is more age-appropriate for them as they grow older.On the issue of infrastructure, we’ve made it very clear—and I spoke to my colleague, the Cabinet Secretary, earlier about this today as well—how important it is that the major infrastructure projects and all infrastructure projects have active travel at the heart, really, because we have an Act in Wales that is there to promote active travel. So, it should be done looking at integrated transport in the wider sense, so including walking and cycling opportunities as well.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement today, which is very welcome. This legislation does seem to have suffered from a lack of interest and ambition on behalf of the Government, causing, I should say, frustration among even the Act’s biggest supporters. The fourth Assembly’s Enterprise and Business Committee made a number of recommendations during their early post-legislative scrutiny of the legislation in February of this year. So, I would be grateful if you could outline how the Government has acted upon the committee’s recommendations. First, colleagues noted that the implementation of the legislation is hampered by a lack of dedicated funding and resources for local authorities to deliver the Act’s laudable aims. The Minister’s predecessor previously said that the Welsh Government did not accept the rationale for considering transport funding in isolation. Now, since you’ve been appointed to your new post, have you reconsidered allocating a dedicated pot specifically for active travel? There does seem as well to be a distinct lack of activity to raise public awareness. Could you therefore perhaps outline how the Welsh Government has sought to address the committee’s concerns with regard to promoting public awareness of the Act? You also mentioned today that you’ve been working closely with your Cabinet Secretary for the economy to ensure that major infrastructure projects such as the metro and city deals should allow for active travel provisions. So, can you therefore outline what specific measures have been taken forward in that regard? Finally, given that the Act underpins so many of the cross-cutting policy agendas of all Welsh Government departments, including the strategies ‘Getting Wales moving’ and ‘Climbing Higher: Creating an Active Wales’, will you outline how you are ensuring that the active travel Act is implemented right across the Government?

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank you for those questions. I’ll begin with the question that you raised on planning, and how we are ensuring that planning is an enabler for active travel. I’m considering now how we might make revisions to planning policy and guidance to strengthen the emphasis on active travel, and that’s something that I would be working with colleagues on as well. You would have heard the First Minister’s comments today in terms of active travel, and his support for it was very clear that, when we are thinking about building new roads, then we should also be thinking in the same mind-set about building new cycle paths and so on, as well. With regard to funding, I don’t believe that we should look separately at funding for active travel because the whole point is that it should be integrated within the normal way that we travel, and making short journeys on foot or by bicycle should be considered normal things to do. However, I do recognise that we do need specific funding to support the implementation of the Act. So, we’ve given local authorities previously a portion of £300,000 towards producing their existing routes map and the preparation of the work there. Also, £200,000 of local transport funding money has been allocated specifically for costs associated with the integrated network map stage of the process as well. You’re absolutely right to say that engagement is absolutely key in terms of how we move this forward, and having a conversation with the public about what the routes that they want and need are, because that really is going to be crucial to the success of this programme. I’ll be looking to our active travel board to take a real leading role in this, and this is made up of key Government departments and external partners, Natural Resources Wales, Public Health Wales, the Welsh Local Government Association and a range of third sector organisations and representatives of business as well. They will have a role, I’m sure, in terms of both holding things to account, in terms of the delivery of the Act, but also being advocates for the Act as well. I recently launched, alongside our voluntary sector organisations, a new website where members of the public can register their interest to be consulted by local authorities on the plans. So, I would recommend anybody with an interest to go ahead and look at the Living Streets website to find out more and to register their interest in terms of letting the local authority know what their routes are, what would make the difference for them, what's stopping them taking a bike or walking to a destination at the moment. So, that's certainly something that I would ask Members here, actually, to promote in their constituencies as well.We're certainly seeking to support local authorities in the discharge of their duties, because we know that we are asking a lot, but then I think that we can gain a lot from them as well. So, we consulted on, and published, delivery guidance on how local authorities should meet their duties under the active travel Act, and I think that this meets some of the recommendations to which you referred. And we’ve also published design guidance that sets out infrastructure standards and provides tools and guidance for network planning and auditing by local authorities. So, we certainly want to make sure that local authorities have access to the information and support that they need in discharging these new duties, because there will be a lot of work involved, but I think that we can achieve a great deal. This is actually a really exciting opportunity for Wales. I'm very aware that the eyes of the world are on this in many senses. I've seen blogs from America looking at what we're doing here in Wales. So, we absolutely have to work together to make sure that it's the success that I know it can be.

Gareth Bennett AC: I thank the Minister for her statement. The active travel plan is a good initiative in terms of its objectives. There could be long-term savings in the NHS budget if people in Wales are basically fit, as Dai Lloyd asserted, and, ideally, physical activity should be nurtured from an early age. On these principles I think we agree. The problem lies, as ever, in how well the aims of the active travel plan can actually be delivered. Sometimes, the developments of modern living will tend to militate against this effective delivery. For instance, we can encourage schoolchildren to walk to school on a given day as part of this plan, but when we have school reorganisations that lead to the closure of local schools, we are left with the prospect of many children having to use vehicular transport to travel to school. To walk more than three miles to school would surely be too far and too time-consuming on a regular basis. So, you'd be unlikely to be encouraging regular walking to school in that instance. The same problem applies to workers whose workplace is many miles away, and, unfortunately, the tendency of modern life has been for people to travel further and further to their place of work. Of course, your plan also covers cycling, which may be more viable in the long term. It will be difficult, nevertheless, to overcome these rather fundamental obstacles, but it will be interesting to see what progress can be made with the active travel plan, and I will endeavour to monitor it closely. Thank you.

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank you for the welcome that you've given it and for the support that I think that we've had right across the Chamber here in the Assembly today. With regard to the workplace, I think there is an opportunity for employers to be supportive of their employees' efforts to make active travel journeys, for example by providing showers in the workplace and so on. I know we certainly provide that kind of facility here at the National Assembly. Our Cymru Travel Challenge, to which I referred in the statement at the start, is an opportunity for workplaces to engage with what we're trying to achieve here, and many workplaces are also working towards the Healthy Working Wales corporate health standard, which is an opportunity for workplaces to demonstrate to their employees that they take their health seriously and that they’re able and willing to invest in and support them for the future as well.I'm very keen—. You mentioned engaging with people from an early age, and that's important because walking and cycling have to be seen as an opportunity for everyone, which is why it's been really important that our active travel approach thus far has engaged right across all of the communities, and specifically looking at how we can engage hard-to-reach communities and individuals with the active travel agenda. So, we had an active travel conference, which looked specifically at this and our efforts to increase participation amongst disabled people, women, ethnic minority groups and older people as well, because we don't want people to feel that this perhaps isn't for them, because there are journeys that most of us can be making by foot or by bike.

Lee Waters AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement and for the personal commitment that both you and the Cabinet Secretary for the economy have shown for this agenda.In many ways, passing the legislation is the easy bit in this project. This is an ambitious and generational project to try and change attitudes and behaviours, and even though, through the existence of the Act, we have some very progressive design guidance, probably the leading design guidance in the UK, it’s how it’s implemented that matters. For example, in my own constituency, Carmarthenshire County Council have recently built two new sections of cycle path alongside the main road between Llangennech and Dafen, and rather than following the guidance that says there should be a 3m-wide path, they’ve decided to build two paths: a 1.5m-wide path on one side, and a 1.5m-wide path on the other side, each with ‘one way’ signs on them. I’ve never seen a ‘one way’ sign on a cycle path before, and it’s highly unlikely it’s going to be given much attention.So, it’s crucial that we engage with the target audience here, which is not people who already cycle; it’s people who have never cycled. This, after all, is about changing behaviour, and so it’s particularly disappointing in the consultation on the first maps that only around 30 people have been consulted by each local authority across Wales. Would she do her best to make sure for the consultation on the next iteration of the maps—the maps where we’d like to see the routes—that we engage as many people as possible, as I say, not people who already cycle and walk, but people who do not?

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you for those points. I’m very keen to ensure that we give local authorities the kind of support that they need, and the guidance that they need. So, it is disappointing to hear the example where perhaps the design guidance has not been followed to give an optimum cycle path, especially when having a new cycle path is a great thing, so let’s try and make it the best possible quality and standard that we can. The target audience, you’re absolutely right, as I said in my statement, is not only the current users and the current people who make active travel journeys, but also potential active travel journeys as well. I’ve said the low figures of active travel present us with a real challenge, but also a real opportunity. So I really want to see local authorities engaging well beyond the usual suspects to people who perhaps would not normally consider this. In my answer to the last question I talked about reaching out to some of the groups who have been more difficult to engage in this agenda in the past. I just wanted to assure you that I have written to all local authorities in Wales outlining to them the seriousness and the importance the Welsh Government attaches to active travel and the successful implementation of this Act, so I’ll be working very closely with them, and if there is support that they feel that they need, I would hope that they would be able to raise that with me.

David Melding AC: Minister, I walked into work this morning and I’ll also walk home. I walked across the barrage from Penarth. I sometimes take the other route across Pont y Werin bridge. That’s a slightly longer walk. Neither of these routes would have been available to me five or six years ago. The only way I could have walked into the Assembly then was down Penarth Road, a much longer route and a very much less pleasant one. I think what you’ve got to encourage is the development of key infrastructure like that connection in the barrage, like that pedestrian bridge I just mentioned, and linking perhaps new paths—not necessarily always along the main roads, though sometimes that is appropriate. We must use infrastructure for key targets—that is, people who can walk to work. You can have satellite car parks, incidentally, and allow people to walk a mile or so from them, freeing up our urban areas, reducing the number of cars and improving air quality. Also, surely it is around schools that we need to be developing our infrastructure and aiming there, because if schoolchildren just get into the habit of walking and cycling, then there’s fitness for life, potentially, for them.

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank you very much for those points. Just to reiterate again the key importance that we see to infrastructure being seen in the round when we’re talking about building transport links and the transport citizens of the future. They absolutely have to include walking and cycling. I’m interested in what you say about the satellite car parking facilities. I think that’s fantastic, because as one of the previous speakers said, some people do have to drive several miles to work, but there’s an opportunity at the end of your journey, for maybe 10 or 15 minutes, to take that last part of your journey and clear you mind before a hard day ahead of you at work, and so on. I’m really keen to listen to any innovative ideas, wherever they come from, within this Chamber or from the organisations who are supporting our work. I do have to say a big thank you to the voluntary organisations and others who have been working so closely and offering us such great support and expertise over the recent months and years.

Thank you. And finally, Julie Morgan.

Julie Morgan AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Making Wales active and making the active travel Act a reality is one of the key tasks for the Welsh Government in this next term, and we’ve already covered today the statistics and the consequences and the health issues that we have to address here in Wales. It’s good to hear that all the existing routes maps have been completed by the local authorities. Have you learned anything from the process of those maps being completed that would help local authorities produce their integrated network maps? Do you feel that any more guidance, for example, is needed? You said you want to support local authorities as much as you can; is there any more that’s needed for the next stage?Would the Minister agree that it’s really important that it’s not only the transport officers and departments in local authorities that are involved, but all the other departments—the education departments, the housing departments—because this is something that affects the behaviour of everybody in most aspects of their life? Is the Minister aware whether, in local authorities, those other departments have been involved or are going to be involved, and what could she do to ensure this will actually happen? I was very pleased to hear about schools’ involvement in thinking about the integrated network mapping process, because obviously this is an absolutely key opportunity, a key chance, for young people, children and, of course, the public generally to have a vital say, really, on the active travel routes that they would like to use. I think you’ve already mentioned the particular groups that you would like to make sure have their say—ethnic minorities—and it’s particularly important that women have their say, because, in terms of cycling, fewer women are willing to cycle for many reasons, and reasons of safety in particular. Living Streets, Sustrans Cymru, Welsh Cycling and Cycling UK, as you know, have launched a joint campaign that allows people to contact their local authorities about the mapping process, asking to be involved in any consultation and any public engagement events. I think it is very important for local authorities to have events, not to only consult online, but to try to do some real living events, such as an audit of an area—an active travel route audit, for example—with residents. Are you able to encourage that sort of event to happen, so that what we finally do is make the active travel Act a reality and that we have a vision that we are driving Wales to be active?

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you very much for those questions. We’ve received all, now, the existing routes maps and I’ll be, shortly, formally accepting the final three of them. In terms of what we’ve learned, we’ll be supporting our local authorities in terms of developing those integrated network maps through a pilot project, which I’ve just recently announced. That will work with a number of local authorities through some of the key integrated network map stages and enable them to share lessons and good practice with one another, because that’s something I think we learned from the previous stage—that we need local authorities to be working much more closely, sharing information and best practice, and so on, with one another, in order to make this the success that we know it can be. So, that pilot project will run on a modular basis, and that will help avoid any delays in terms of waiting for the completion of the project and getting the information to us to analyse. There’ll be a conference later in the year on active travel, and I’m really keen to ensure that, again, it’s not just the usual suspects who are attending, who you’d expect to be there. I would like to see representatives from housing, education, and so on, and health at that conference as well, to see how we can work forward in partnership on that. You raised the importance, again, of engaging with children. Children have been engaged by some local authorities in terms of the mapping exercises and in terms of understanding what routes children would like to see, and what the barriers are to making them more active as well. You mentioned women, and there’s lots of good work going on. For example, Breeze in Swansea is a club that has been set up for women who want to cycle, but who don’t want to cycle alone, and so on. I’d also mention BikeAbility and Pedal Power, for example, as organisations who are supporting disabled people and others to access cycling as well, because that kind of kit can be very expensive for an individual. But, then, with the support of charities they are able to access what they need. So, I very much see this Act as being an Act for everyone in Wales and an opportunity for Government to support people to become more active both through cycling and walking. We can’t do it alone; we need the partnership of local authorities. I’m confident that we have that and the support of the organisations who are giving us their knowledge and expertise as well.

Thank you very much, Minister.

7. 7. Legislative Consent Motion on the Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill

We move on to the next item on the agenda, item 7—the legislative consent motion on the Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure to move the motion—Ken Skates.

Motion NDM6090 Ken SkatesTo propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6 agrees that provisions in the Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill, relating to the protection of cultural property in the event of armed conflict in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Motion moved.

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion. I’m pleased to be able to bring forward this legislative consent motion on the UK Government’s Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill. I’d like to record my thanks to the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee for its scrutiny of the memorandum and also note that they are content with it. I commend the motion to the Chamber.

Thank you very much. There are no speakers in this debate, so you don’t have to respond to that. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. That’s good. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

That concludes today’s business. Thank you.

The meeting ended at 17:26.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Jayne Bryant: What plans does the Welsh Government have to support technology companies in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: With the fastest growing digital economy outside London, Welsh Government recognises the value of the tech sector. By supporting the commercial exploitation of digital and other technologies we continue the development of a modern economy that nurtures further growth in this important sector.

Steffan Lewis: Will the First Minister make a statement on his vision for the constitutional future of Wales?

Mark Drakeford: My vision is a strong Wales within a reformed United Kingdom. The governance of the union must reflect the reality that it is a voluntary union of four parts working together for mutual benefit. It must be a union of equals underpinned by fair funding.

Hannah Blythyn: What plans does the First Minister have to recognise the achievements of Welsh Olympians and Paralympians?

Mark Drakeford: As I have already announced, we are delighted to host a homecoming event for Welsh competitors and medallists who took part in the Rio Olympic and Paralympic games. A free public event will take place outside the Senedd on Thursday 29 September between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m.

Caroline Jones: What action is the Welsh Government taking to mitigate the health impacts of air pollution in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: We are tackling air pollution in a number of ways, including through local air quality management, industry regulation, the planning regime and the promotion of active travel. Addressing air pollution requires a collaborative approach and we recently launched a public consultation seeking views on what more we can do.

Dai Lloyd: Will the First Minister make a statement on rail electrification in south Wales?

Mark Drakeford: We welcome the current investment in rail infrastructure in Wales. However, we continue to press for confirmation of the timetable for electrification to Swansea.